The speakers explore the impact of digital communication on expressing gratitude and building meaningful relationships. They argue that while digital interactions are convenient, in-person connections are more powerful and necessary for experiencing the full depth of gratitude. They emphasize the importance of face-to-face interactions and the sensory experiences that come with them. The speakers also discuss the limitations of digital communication and the need for creative ways to express gratitude and maintain meaningful connections. They highlight the value of proxemic connections and the desire for real, tangible connections among younger generations.
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[00:00:09.80] - Gregg Garner
Alright. Let's Brett. Yeah. Like, let let let's jump into this because I'm sure Mitch has got a great question to to kick you off with.
[00:00:17.19] - Mitchell Buchanan
First, he mocks the questions. Now he relies on them. It's like,
[00:00:20.30] - Gregg Garner
I'm making room for you, bro, which is what something Jesus said he does, and I wanna do what he does.
[00:00:27.10] - Mitchell Buchanan
Some well, I I think some of what we were talking about before you started recording in that I kind of posed a question on was was social media. So I think All of the sermons from this last month, I think people gave examples where it's easy to give, like, really trite, like, oh, Thank you for doing that. Or it's like it seems very simplistic that it's like we can easily just kind of give an offhanded, hey. Thank you. Thanks for that. And something I was trying to dig into, particularly with Jeff's sermon and others is, like, there's a very personal, Vulnerable interaction that we have with people where it's like when we're really thankful, I think, multiple Preachers highlighted that it's it requires that direct interaction where we're telling someone or engaging with someone, and telling them thank you and having that spirit. Are we kind of, like, undercutting ourselves where we're Tell us where we're where we're in social media and we said, hey. Thanks for a great night. It was awesome. Or shooting a text at somebody. Hey. Thanks for having us over. Is that kind of like quelling What is needed to have, like, a cathartic thankfulness spirit about us? Like, I'm trying to trying to pose a question where we are almost short chain it's so easy to, I think, engage digitally
[00:01:37.70] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:01:38.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
That it's almost like we're short changing The necessary interpersonal engagement we have, which has an intrapersonal, reality too of, like, oh, I'm, like, Engaging with Brett. I'm he's responding to me being thankful, and that's doing something in my heart and my soul. Whereas if we just do it digitally, I think we are Short changing that whole process so much. So, maybe just in your sermon, I know your examples of going to the y with Levi. Like, Those interpersonal moments we have, like, how are those engaging that thankfulness that digital can't do? Or Can digital, like, accomplish those necessary acts of thankfulness that we need to be demonstrating as believers?
[00:02:19.69] - Brett Madron
I think it can. I think I think, like, you know, I would make a distinction between, like, text messaging and And social media maybe. Mhmm. Just because there is an interpersonal element to that, and and it does require some intrapersonal Reflection to to you know, if you're communicating with another person in those regards and you've you've you've taken some time to reflect and think about what you're You're thankful for in those regards. It it feels less like a, you know, a platitude in in Jeff's words, the other day. Like, It's not it's not offhand if you're if you're taking the time to to do that. I think, of of course, it feels more personal If you're with a person, you know, in in the moment communicating words, they can see your face. They can sense your emotions, a little better. So in that regard, yeah, I think there there is a more powerful element to, doing it in person.
[00:03:15.50] - Gregg Garner
Your sermon actually Or before. I can't remember. I think I think it might have been after. I just know that I got a a text from you
[00:03:22.80] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah.
[00:03:23.19] - Gregg Garner
Where you were communicating Thanksgiving, And it was, like, very discerning, right on time, meaningful, touched my heart, deeply. I shared it with my wife immediately, Touched her. So it was it was impactful, but you ended it with, hey, and I still wanna get together.
[00:03:42.30] - Brett Madron
Yeah. That's true.
[00:03:43.30] - Gregg Garner
You know? So I do think that what Mitch is talking about, like, God God created us with these five faculties
[00:03:50.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:03:50.90] - Gregg Garner
That are only Discerned in person.
[00:03:53.50] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:03:54.00] - Gregg Garner
Right? Like, the the the sensory capacity that we have is a is a God given gift that anchors us in reality.
[00:04:02.59] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:04:03.00] - Gregg Garner
So there's a very visceral experience when you're touching someone
[00:04:07.59] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:04:08.50] - Gregg Garner
You know, hearing their voice, Looking at their facial expressions that I think is healthy and should be prioritized. And I'm not saying that digital is bad, but I I definitely think that it it, like, has its shortcomings. And Yeah. Whenever possible, I think we should try to do face to face. I had someone, who I respect so greatly. She she's, an employee, And she, sent me a text saying, hey. I'm succeeding a a certain program. I just wanted to let you know. And, I felt like, oh my gosh. Hey. Is it okay if if we we meet in person and talk about this? And I I realized that I didn't tell him why. So so when she came in
[00:04:55.69] - Mitchell Buchanan
Dun dun dun. Yeah.
[00:04:57.19] - Gregg Garner
And then but then I just said, I just wanted to say thank you. And so The the disposition changed, you know, and
[00:05:04.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
I thought Amelia. Yeah.
[00:05:05.50] - Gregg Garner
Oh, man. Why didn't I preface with that? But, anyways, I just thanked her. Right. And I wanted her to see my eyes. I wanted her to hear my voice because it was no small thing that she did. For me, it was a huge thing.
[00:05:17.10] - Gregg Garner
And I just didn't feel like me responding on a text message To say Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. Thank you so much for your service these last seven years, however long it's been in that program. It was just like, I needed that visceral exchange. And so I I do believe God made us.
[00:05:34.10] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah.
[00:05:35.39] - Gregg Garner
You you know, We speaking of lepers, we know the story where you have the individual leper because of the Jesus. And he's like, if if you're willing, you can make me clean. And it says that Jesus touches them first, and then he says be made clean. Right? There there there is a theology of touch and proximity Like, that's in the scripture of Jesus who touched me. Everybody's touching you. He there's there's something specific that he's discerning and sensing Related to somebody's need, there's a there's a connection that's being made. So I I I agree. It's it digital can can be, convenient. And I I know I probably wouldn't have been able to hear from you with such immediate, you know, so immediately had you not sent me a text message. But the the the hope to get together and then I'm sure when we do get together, it was just, you know, last week, I guess, because of the text. When we do get together, it it will, just enhance and solidify For
[00:06:35.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
sure.
[00:06:36.00] - Gregg Garner
What what came about in that exchange. Because, I mean, we're not like I'm not a Luddite at least. I I I think technology can make things pretty convenient,
[00:06:46.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:06:46.69] - Gregg Garner
And it helps for some people who maybe, need to write down their words, like, who who process and who collect pictures. Like, there's a ministry in that, you know, that, but I I do think that you're not experiencing the totality of health That you can in your relationships if you you don't have a proxemic connection Right. With somebody.
[00:07:09.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. I think it can tutor. I mean, you know, through COVID, post COVID
[00:07:15.10] - Gregg Garner
Phew.
[00:07:15.69] - Mitchell Buchanan
Being all digital, it can tutor you into, I think, finding a satisfaction with, oh, you know, I've got that. I texted them or, like, hey. I thanked them there, which There is the interpersonal. I think it it needs to burst out of out out of the text, out of the digital
[00:07:36.39] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Because we have to be creative for that. So it's not it's not going to be something that we even really ultimately long for. We long for Right. The the proxemic Connection. So, like, when we started the academy in two thousand thirteen, we were one of the first schools in the nation to be a a one to one school, meaning every child Has a piece of technology that's connected to an LMS system. I didn't even find that out until we went to a future of education technology conference in Florida a couple years ago. Corey Corey Foster set it up, and we were there. Like like me, Skyler, Duffy, Rebecca, Corey, we we're, at these conferences and hearing about, like, the the new implementation for implementation of technology in the classroom, and we had been doing it at that point for, like, nine years. And, when we first started, people would just tell me, I don't want this for my kids because I don't want them To be disconnected, I want them to have those experiences of human touch and and kinesthetic relationship to, the paper with a pen. And what I tried to say is these things are out there, and they're gonna want to, to,
[00:08:45.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
to, to,
[00:08:45.50] - Gregg Garner
deal with. They're gonna want technology.
[00:08:47.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:08:47.60] - Gregg Garner
What we need to teach them is first, we need to familiarize them with it and teach them how to use it. And I believe that naturally because the way God created us, the the whatever the magic is or the draw is to it initially, it wears off. And I can testify to that. Now with my my son, Justice, he's about to graduate. He started in the school when he was six years old. Right? And him and his friends, his whole friend group, juniors and seniors, they they would much rather sit together at a bonfire, Sing together, talk. They don't wanna be on their iPads. They don't they leave their phones everywhere. They they're not like your other teenagers. I'm not kidding you. This sounds
[00:09:25.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
like this just sounds like a
[00:09:26.79] - Gregg Garner
A commercial?
[00:09:27.89] - Mitchell Buchanan
No. It's it sounds like a
[00:09:29.20] - Gregg Garner
It should be.
[00:09:30.10] - Mitchell Buchanan
It sounds like a video, like a temptation video or something like a challenge video. Like, alright. Like, here's the
[00:09:36.29] - Gregg Garner
No, man. I'm telling you, they they they really want, Real connections. They wanna be around each other. They wanna talk. Mhmm. They they they can enjoy that proximate connection because They they recognize having become so familiar with, digital modalities of human connection that it's it's not a thing. Even when they do, like, the little things that they've gotten into, like Lock It or which is a little app they do to change each other's Screens and putting pictures on there. It's all with the desire to eventually talk about it and connect over the course of time. So I I I I think that if if We, get a handle on our social media digital technology in such a way that we recognize it's a starting point and not an end. We we can be a lot healthier.
[00:10:26.29] - Brett Madron
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:27.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
And I pray even, like, church we have church members that have been around for a long time together. I think it can be easy to kinda rely on that. Like, I've known Brett since high school, and it's like, oh, if I don't see Brett and, like, we'll still have a digital connection, it's like, I think we can I just I I pray that we'll keep that that edge of, like, hey? We need to have you know, be together and have that proximity. Yeah. Because not just like I'm addicted to my phone or I'm addicted to social media, even an overreliance on, oh, I know this guy. We have a connection so I can shoot a a joke to him once a month, but it's like, if I still don't see him, if I'm still not, like, coming to church, coming to that event, eating in his house, it's like I'm still missing out on, like, so many
[00:11:09.79] - Gregg Garner
Dude, this is why our community really needs to grow. And I've seen people grow in this, but we really need to grow in celebrating one another, Even the natural events, like birthdays, anniversaries. Because I know that peep people in our community are frugal.
[00:11:23.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
And Dude, I'm, like, I'm I'm the most anti birthday. I'm I support probably what you're gonna say.
[00:11:28.50] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Yeah. I know. I get it. I get it. I totally get it. I don't want anyone celebrating my birthday either. You should've Seen my face in a video this summer when when my new friend Frank Crystal's there. Tried to record I I I have a hard time with it, but but here's the thing. Like, Recently, a few guys combined at, at Yeah. At Jason Carpenter's house for for a birthday. And, there were several people there that I hadn't seen in a bit. Right. And I went in, and I was totally social anxiety. JC was so cool, man. He's like, come over here by yourself. I sat by myself by a fire for a little bit, and, he let me warm up and everybody else. I was like, the The little first grade kid who needs He
[00:12:08.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
knew to watch he knew to watch out for you, dude. He knew.
[00:12:10.79] - Gregg Garner
Yeah, dude. But, like, you know, after I I calm con't Calm down and realize everybody in here is loving and caring. It just turned in such a a an evening of joy, man. So much laughter and Connecting with people even watching my wife connect with people that I know she hadn't had the venue to connect with in a while, it fortifies Your confidence in the fact that there are good people around you. Yeah. And I think when you remain on the digital level. And you know that most people are just putting out digital BS all the time.
[00:12:45.00] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:12:45.29] - Gregg Garner
Like, you don't you you you You just sense its inauthenticity.
[00:12:49.20] - Mitchell Buchanan
It cast down those vain imaginations when you're together.
[00:12:52.00] - Gregg Garner
Yeah, man. When when all of a sudden, I'm just I'm just watching Chris Jones and Tara just dying laughing, dude. Like, you know, I never see them hanging out, but but they they really love each other. And and Anna and Tara are, like, super close. Like, Tara was her teacher in birth work and everything. You know? And she was there at their birth the you know, like, it's just really cool Yeah. To have those Proxemic opportunities where you get to specifically celebrate people. For sure.
[00:13:18.20] - Brett Madron
Mhmm.
[00:13:18.50] - Gregg Garner
And I and I think if if if we stop, thinking that the the expense to do those things is the deterrent for doing them, and we value The opportunity for those celebratory proximate connections, I think, were more in line with with, like, the things that Jesus was about. I mean, the wedding at Cana, obviously, he felt like, Enhancing the celebration initially wasn't up wasn't his responsibility. But in that text, what's so cool is he listens to his mom. And it his his mom's like, you need to you need to uphold the honor of this family, and you got you gotta make this place work. And and I think that, they're they're a bunch of characters. Everybody can do that to some degree. Like, if Mitch, if you come to something, you're gonna bring joy and laughter. Brett, you're gonna bring, like, a, like, a a piece and just fun mellowness to things.
[00:14:12.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
Brett Brett's like a he's a real connectivity guy where it's like, Brett will find a conversation or find somebody who, like and just bring just randomly be like, oh, I'm gonna, like, Get on to Austin Benacker right now because he's, like, trying to hide in the corner, and he'll, like, make those connections.
[00:14:29.00] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. And I'm saying we may not all none of us Can turn water into wine. Yeah. But we all have the gift that God gave us that can bring happiness and and joy because that's that's what the wine did for everybody that night whether anyone wants to admit it or not. I know the Baptists are like Yeah. It was grape juice. But, there there was there was a merriment that came about, and I think that everybody has that, but it doesn't happen if you're not in proximity to one another.
[00:14:56.79] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:14:57.20] - Gregg Garner
Like, I'm sure GIFs and memes and things, make people laugh, but there's something totally different when, at one point, Carpenter wanted to show me Murphy bed that he put into his his his house. So he goes in there, right, and he goes to open up the Murphy bed. Oh, yeah. Pulls the whole thing off, hits him in the face. And like, I mean, he got his no rug full of it, he's all woke. And I'm like, dude, you alright? He just dies laughing. I die laughing. The bed never comes down, so the whole thing doesn't work.
[00:15:27.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
My gosh.
[00:15:28.00] - Gregg Garner
We we we laughed probably for Ten solid minutes, dude. I would've been a great time.
[00:15:32.89] - Mitchell Buchanan
I would've been furious. Oh, hundred percent. Oh, he
[00:15:36.00] - Gregg Garner
was he was upset, but what are you gonna do, dude? Yeah.
[00:15:38.60] - Mitchell Buchanan
It would we we just I would have dismantled the thing right there. Jason's better than me.
[00:15:42.70] - Gregg Garner
But but, you know, like, that that that laughter that we shared together, it it's bonding. Mhmm. You you talk to, sociologists, psychologists who who study, proxemics and And, like, the the kind of interpersonal connections that that groups have, whether they they, have them, I like, dancing. What's it called? Like, the tribal dance, the haka. Right? Where
[00:16:08.89] - Brett Madron
the. Yeah.
[00:16:09.70] - Gregg Garner
They're doing all the things. Yeah. They're all dancing together. Anytime anybody gets on, like, the same frequency, whether it's with singing or laughter Mhmm. Like, there's a there's a bond. And we sometimes don't think about that because I think, Sometimes Christians are are upset with science. I always say that science is catching up to God. Like, the science now tells us when we sing together and we all get on the same frequency, we're actually all touching each other.
[00:16:31.60] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:16:31.79] - Gregg Garner
Like, we're actually all connected and unified when we dance together, when we laugh together. And so science is saying that, but god already wanted us to sing and dance and laugh Together because he knew it was good for us, but you can't do that digitally.
[00:16:43.60] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:44.10] - Gregg Garner
When you watch church online, you are missing out.
[00:16:47.60] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:16:47.89] - Gregg Garner
You should be watching church online Because something prevented you from being there.
[00:16:52.60] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:16:53.00] - Gregg Garner
Not not because it's it's Convenient. Yeah. Convenient. And for a lot of us, just, There there's there's there's some kind of, something that's been developed that keeps us from, those those groups of people in the social settings. And I think if we realize there's a medicine that's available in getting together, it it changes things, which makes you thankful.
[00:17:17.40] - Brett Madron
Yeah. Yeah.
[00:17:18.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. Which I I know we need to stop. One one last quick thing. Along the exact thing you were talking about, which I wanna get Brett's thoughts because it I think it is just so personal for him where it's, like, it's natural for all of us to be connected. Even just thinking on Levi, like, For someone who even has very little, like, ability to communicate, like, I would think if Because I'm not with Levi all the time, I would think, oh, he would be really into digital where it's like, he's gonna use his talker to talk to people and really just kinda zone into shows. Whenever I'm with Levi, he is so kinetic. He is so personal with everybody, and it's like
[00:17:54.29] - Gregg Garner
Oh, yeah.
[00:17:54.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
I think that's just, like, a very clear example for How God created us because even and I want you to speak, but even Levi who may be, like, short on options is, like, is it may For me, it may seem like it's easier for him to be digital. He's the opposite.
[00:18:10.50] - Brett Madron
Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, his his Where he knows that he lacks an ability to verbally communicate makes up for it in
[00:18:19.59] - Mitchell Buchanan
in touch in
[00:18:20.29] - Brett Madron
a lot of ways. Whether that's Too invasive at times or what. He he, he really likes to engage with people. And and I would say, yeah, he uses his iPad and and what Voice he can, at this point, to, you know, just to communicate in what ways he can. But, yeah, I would say, Yeah. He he loves to be around people. He likes
[00:18:43.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
And it's it's not it's natural, and I think it's so
[00:18:47.70] - Gregg Garner
And it's communicative. You know? Right. Like, his thing with me, probably seven times out of ten, he'll just come over and Yeah. And hold. Uh-huh. You know? And it's I I understand. Yeah. You know? And I I try to give back to him In that moment, we're talking.
[00:19:06.59] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:19:06.79] - Gregg Garner
Not talking. We're talking. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like,
[00:19:09.90] - Mitchell Buchanan
There's and there's a closer connection digitally. There's a closer connection there with Levi in that moment than you might have texting somebody else because there's not that Right. Yeah. Interpersonal and even that physical connection where it's like, god made us to where we respond to each other. Yep.
[00:19:23.59] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:19:23.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
He wrote some face to face. I I
[00:19:24.79] - Brett Madron
I I wrote some it was like a piece of poetry once about how he he can't talk, but he He can. Like, in in this example, like like, he he's he's very perceptive. Like
[00:19:38.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
For sure.
[00:19:38.59] - Brett Madron
I had an example in the poem of, like, He he he can't talk to you, but he'll notice, like, the kid all the way across the cafeteria that left his bag sitting there. And he's gonna See that kid walk off and go to run over to grab that backpack, carry it to the kid. Like Mhmm. Because some something else is lacking. He's Higher he has higher senses in in other ways Yeah. That are are communicative in their own way. Mhmm.
[00:20:05.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
For sure.
[00:20:05.79] - Gregg Garner
That's a beautiful example. Yeah. Thank you, Brett.
[00:20:09.20] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:20:09.90] - Gregg Garner
Well, everyone, I think if anything, a big challenge just from this talk with Brett is that we should do our best to try and be physically present with those For whom we want to know, we're thankful. And, to to develop opportunities to experience life together will lead to more gratefulness. And as you made the point in your sermon, this is a decision we make. This is not something that just happens automatically. Yeah. We have to decide to implement Thanksgiving, and I believe Thanksgiving needs a venue. Yeah. Like, you you it it's It's not just the words we say. There there's, like, just just showing up. Even if you're shy and you're quiet and you show up, it means something to somebody. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I always drag myself to weddings. As just go, you I've done done
[00:21:02.20] - Mitchell Buchanan
done done it, man.
[00:21:02.50] - Gregg Garner
You just go.
[00:21:03.00] - Brett Madron
Something for sure.
[00:21:03.90] - Gregg Garner
Because it's it says something. Anyways, thank you so much, Rhett.
[00:21:07.79] - Brett Madron
Yeah. You're welcome. Yeah.
[00:21:08.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
Thanks, guys.
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