In this podcast, the hosts review sermons on Thanksgiving from Jeff Sherrod and Brett Madryn. They discuss the distinction between faith and thanksgiving, emphasizing the importance of gratitude and its impact on our perspective on life. The speakers also explore the concept of labeling and identity in relation to healing and wellness, questioning whether someone should still be labeled by their past issues. They discuss the difference between healing and wellness, and the role of faith in achieving wellness. Lastly, they emphasize the importance of gratitude and social connection in the healing journey, while also encouraging individuals to actively seek healing.
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[00:00:09.40] - Gregg Garner
What's up, everyone? Welcome to the church community for God's sermon podcast. In this podcast series, We will be reviewing the various sermons that went over the course of a month by different Speakers that are correlative to the monthly value that we have at our church. This last month, the value was Thanksgiving. And we have with us today two of those speakers, mister Jeff Sherrod and Brett Madron. And the guy over there that you see who is very well prepared, Mitchell Buchanan, is my cohost in this series, and I'm Gregg Garner. We are super excited to be able to do this for you guys because I think the best conversations with respect to what happens on a Sunday morning, come after the sermon. Yeah. And I know that you can ask a preacher, you know, what are you speaking on this Sunday? And they kinda tell you, but, really, the words I wanna hear from them happen after the sermon. And that's kind of what we're gonna get a peek into. Like, their thoughts after the sermon, how They not just felt it went, but whether or not the message was communicated in the way that they intended it to be and whether it was received in that way. And we can bring up clarifying points and then really just see where it goes from there as we continue the conversation. So this church For GOD podcast is focused on the sermon series itself. And for this month, it was the value of Thanksgiving. I'm a go ahead and turn it over to my cohost, Mitchell, who's gonna kick us off with a question. I'm just kidding. He's gonna do that next. First, we're gonna hear from Brett and Jeff. Yep. And What I what I was hoping you guys could do for everybody is give us a quick summary on your sermon. Like, what was your verse? What was it that you were trying to drive home in terms of a point related to Thanksgiving? And then we're gonna turn it over to Mitch who will be very well prepared for when that happens,
[00:02:13.90] - Brett Madron
So prepared. Look at all these papers.
[00:02:17.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. I'll I'll start out. So the the passage I went over was Luke seventeen. This is the passage of the ten lepers, and one comes back and and gives us thanks, to Jesus for what happens. You know, I try to say even in in the sermon that initially, this might just come off like a miracle sermon, you know, like, Maybe I'm not saying just a miracle sermon, but that's my how you read it is Jesus is awesome. Right. But there's so much subtlety, I think, in this passage. So there was things I was trying to do. Maybe a few things I was trying to do. One was to draw this distinction between faith and thanksgiving, because that's the thing that gets noted by Jesus at the end as your has made you well. And so it kind of has you asked the question, like, what was the faith that this man showed in this passage? You know, he was healed. He was with the other ten, but there's something distinct About him as opposed to the other nine. So something I was trying to do, also draw a little distinction between, the being made well, which is what Jesus says at the end, and also being healed. Note that Thanksgiving can always happen.
[00:03:19.19] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:03:19.40] - Jeff Sherrod
It can always happen, because it's the work of God in our life that we can be thankful for. So, yeah, those are some of the the main points.
[00:03:26.19] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Thank you thank you for that. And I have a lot of questions for you Okay. With respect to your your sermon and the points you're making. So I'm excited to get into that. Brett, give us a preview.
[00:03:34.59] - Brett Madron
Yeah. Mine was mine was, 1 Thessalonians 05:16 through eighteen. Rejoice always. Pray without ceasing. Give thanks in all circumstances for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. So, pretty straightforward text on the face. I think with this with this exhortation, it's a tall order. The the the sort of all encompassing qualifiers of Always without ceasing in all circumstances. Paul gives this, and I think there could be, like, a knee jerk reaction to, like, this is this is a very demanding text. And I think we have to get past that and recognize that, really, the power in this text is us Practicing these things and moving towards doing these things as disciplines, and and And incorporating them and and seeing how doing these things actually will mature our perspective on Whatever season of life we're going through, and and I think, they they all require a choice. They all they all are a decision to make, whether it's prayer, Thanksgiving, choosing joy, there there's something that we have to make a decision about regardless of Kind of how we might feel in a particular moment.
[00:04:48.89] - Gregg Garner
Thanks, Brett. Yeah. Mitch, hit us with a question.
[00:04:53.30] - Mitchell Buchanan
What question? Could be any any number of them. I'm just messing. Gregg keeps pointing out that I came prepared, which is somehow a negative in such context, but , this is fun. I love doing this. A question I had, I think we can just start with Jeff, which was kinda playing on Luke 17. So, in our accountability groups, we obviously wanna spur people on To do better, to hold accountability. I'm like, hey, are you engaging with the Lord? Are you living out your faith? And I think Luke 17, it was that thanksgiving was an instrumental part for that man to be made well. Not just to be healed. They were all healed. But I think him returning, it was that he was made well. So I think in our accountability groups, I was just trying to, like, think through, like, when we want to, I think, Hold someone to account or if, like, someone's not doing well, which that can be so many people in the midst of, what life is throwing at them. If they're not doing well, How can we urge them or push them to, I think, recognize that they can be made well through thanksgiving? Like, that man took initiative. He had to turn back, but it's not like It's not something you can do for someone else. So I was just trying to think on, like, not just a practical manner of like, "Hey, how's it going?" Like, There's ways that we wanna intercede for people, but it seems like it's hard to do that if they don't have that in and of themselves to want to be made well. Does that make sense?
[00:06:18.10] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. I mean, I think just off the top of my head, I do think that there is a correlation between thanksgiving and and faith. And one of the things that I think we're always trying to do is push each other onto greater faith. And I think in in terms of how that works practically sometimes is that, and this is where complaint and grumbling can contrast thanksgiving because complaint and grumbling when it's not accountable and it's just thrown out there, I think it's, Gregg's used the word before, like, disintegrating. You know, it kind of gets people into a pattern where they start to move away from social relationships. They're not engaging the same way, where faith and thanksgiving, I think, does the opposite. It moves us closer to one another, And I think that's maybe a way that we can help each other to evaluate our words is like, hey. Is this something that's moving you to Greater social you know, not just friend, like in a worldly sense, but friends in a biblical sense where we're together, we're serving one another, We're supporting one another. We're loving each other day after day as long as it's called today. And I think that that's what should happen. And so we're making decisions, like Brett said, to Practice thanksgiving. And as we do that, hopefully, the kind of integration that we have even our accountability groups goes up. So maybe that would be the accountability. I would say is, like, But if you're not, like, where where does this go other than maybe just disintegrate?
[00:07:57.10] - Gregg Garner
But in this text, the the lepers really don't have much to say about anything.
[00:08:01.60] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:08:02.00] - Gregg Garner
Right? They're just, for the most part, recipients of something Jesus did
[00:08:08.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:08:08.60] - Gregg Garner
Until one voices thanksgiving. So we don't really get that other side of the coin where we hear the complaining or the grumbling from these guys, though There was probably some of that based upon their life circumstance. I think it's easy to think that sometimes when people complain or grumble, They, they don't have anything to complain and grumble about, but often people do. Yeah. There's something going on in their lives. Right.
[00:08:35.39] - Brett Madron
Right.
[00:08:35.60] - Gregg Garner
For these guys, there was something there. But What's an interesting observation is that the text gives no voice to the complaining and grumbling, Just the desire for them to be healed, to be made well. Yeah. And I think another way to help people Be accountable is to help them understand, and you pose it in your last question, like, asking them where this is going. That while you have something to complain about, I think our culture, really emphasizes letting someone tell their story, letting someone's Voice be heard. I'm not really seen unless I've, like, said all the terrible things that are happening to me. And it's like While there's there seems to be some importance on that. This text does a real radical move and doesn't give any voice to that. We don't hear about their situation. We only have it labeled, and that's also countercultural for us to just label something. Oh, his problem is that he has, this label. You know? He 's got a hyperactivity disorder. She's got trauma. Like, that feels bad to our culture. But the text, it's like they're lepers.
[00:09:49.10] - Brett Madron
Right.
[00:09:49.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Right. Yeah. They're just classified
[00:09:51.10] - Gregg Garner
By this, you know, label. Yeah. Whenever I think about text, I always go modern, And I just think how offensive this would be. Hey. Let me tell you guys a story. There are these ten ADHD guys. They're just Dude, they were very ADHD. ADHD. So ADHD.
[00:10:05.89] - Jeff Sherrod
They're all gonna respond by saying it's more complicated than that. And
[00:10:08.10] - Gregg Garner
And then and then Jesus just told them, hey. Why don't you guys go back to your therapist, take a test or something and find out that you can get off the meds or whatever it is. Yeah. Like, everybody's already offended by my story. Like, right now. Yeah. But when we tell it About lepers and you know? Because the the leprosy was preventing them from the integrative health That comes from having community. And when you're asking about accountability, the text, Jesus acts surprised.. Maybe is the wrong word. Maybe there's a better word. He definitely Comments and says, were there not Nine others of you guys? Where are they? And then he notes that this guy who's a Samaritan . Is the one who comes and turns the experience into something that does culminate in his Wellness. So in trying to make sense of that with respect to accountability, my question for you guys is, Like, is there a responsibility for us to recognize the work that someone else has done in our lives to bring about, healing and restoration. And that without that expressive gratitude, wellness is is, not part of the formula. Like, you don't get wellness unless you learn To turn back around. Because, you know, you you look at life as we go through life. Right?
[00:11:40.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah.
[00:11:40.50] - Gregg Garner
I think for a lot of people, they go through life. They experience things. Hardships happen. Something creates in them a disintegrating experience. They now can be labeled by that thing. They get help from somebody, but then they move forward in life. And it's like, thank you for helping me. I'm now well, and I'm just gonna go forward in life and move on with my life. But this text seems to Highlight the one who stopped going in that direction, turned back around and, gave thanks and had that, like, moment, with with Jesus. So is it just limited to thanks to God? Does Jesus here represent anybody Who's a a son or daughter of God that God is using to bring about the kind of integrated, healing and Wellness that people need. What do you guys think?
[00:12:27.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Well yeah. And that's what I try to say that, you know, because I think someone could say, well, Jesus is god, and I wanna say, yeah. We know that. But to what degree would the leper have known that? Is that the point of that the story is trying to say?
[00:12:39.00] - Gregg Garner
We know a leper wouldn't.
[00:12:40.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Right. Yeah. So it seems like the communication would be That this is a thing to the the child and or the, you know, son or daughter of God who has done something instead of just, You know?
[00:12:52.39] - Gregg Garner
But how often do we redirect people? Like, in terms because I think your question's good, Mitch. Like, yours is pragmatic. And I like having you on the show because gonna be probably more conceptual, and you're gonna be more pragmatic about things. Absolutely. Like, you're you're talking about our accountability groups, and I get that we can move people identify when they're complaining and grumbling. But, again, people feel the need to tell their story, and and it's gonna culminate in a label, and we just kinda gotta get over selves. You know, like, I can say my last couple years has definitely been characterized by elements of grief, like deep forms of grief. And, you know, that's what it is. But I also wanna be well. And and I think that there that moving forward in life, I should, Like, the accountability I need is for me to turn back around and then go say thank you to the people that have allowed me to still be a part of their world. To me, you know, like that's, like, that's a really healthy practice.
[00:13:46.79] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. I think even I think your last statement made me think there's part of the An accepted part of the the story, the narrative is that they're lepers. They clearly know they're lepers, and you brought that up. Like, the whole town knows they're lepers. Jesus does. So I think even if it's like, hey. I have my hurts. This is where I'm coming from. If that's all concealed and it's not, like, being vulnerable, if it's not in the open, I think there is a power in just accepting, like, hey. This is, like, where I lack. This is, like, where I've been hurt. This is where I've had trauma. Whatever the the line is, and it's like being able to, I think, see your worldview in so far as, like, I am in need. I have this thing. If we come even as practicals come to our accountability groups and we're just shrouding whatever hurts is or whatever our pains are, and we're not willing to say, Hey. I'm gonna put my cards on the table. I'm a leper in these ways, or it's like, hey. I am addicted to my phone, or I'm addicted to this. It's like, I've one of my accountability groups, I had to tell them, I sleep on the couch five nights a week. I was like, I feel okay with it, but it's really not normal. I don't know. But unless we I think we have, like, literally revealing those warts that we have, that it's like I don't think we can find the full. We can't be made well unless I think we're staring down, like, all those issues and allowing someone to, like, reflect back and help. And I think, you know, the interaction is, such a part of that because we can only imagine to what degree we have our problems or imagine to what degree We are a leper, but when someone else is able to minister to us and able to, like, engage in that, I think we can find that.
[00:15:26.00] - Gregg Garner
It's so interesting too. Jesus is very comfortable with the labels or at least Luke is. Right? So if he's not a leper, he's a Samaritan. Right. Right? Yeah. Like, they're just real broad Labels on the people. So I was wondering, like, now that he's he's both healed and well, will he be known as the guy who used to be a leper, who's a Samaritan? Like, how do you understand that? Because I'm thinking about other people. Like, you're talking about folks who have, like, addictions and stuff or or certain kinds of labels. I I know that that's so much part of their story . That they even celebrate the fact that they, have overcome. Yeah. You know? They maybe were an alcoholic. And so now they're like, I'm ten years sober or whatever it is.
[00:16:11.10] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:16:11.29] - Gregg Garner
They're not an alcoholic now, but then some people be like, but you are. You're always an alcoholic once you're an alcoholic. So you're an alcoholic who's not done alcohol in ten year s...You know, the identity is still tied to the thing. So, like, Does wellness, resituate the label? Like, this one being a Samaritan, was Jesus just highlighting for us The fact that this guy comes from, an because, you know, there are theological implications here. Right? Yeah. One of the theological implications is that Samaritans Didn't believe in the Davidic covenant. And so the thought that the temple in Jerusalem would be the legitimate place for forgiveness and cleansing, specified in Solomon's work to them is is illegitimate.
[00:16:57.89] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:16:58.29] - Gregg Garner
Right? So the Samaritans, they they were more on onto the the Moses and and the prophets. Yeah. And so their theology makes it so that what Luke's trying to present or any of the gospel writers in Jesus as, like, that mobile tabernacle For God. I mean, just a a few, I guess, twelve chapters before this. You you do have, everybody at Jesus going to houses, people being at Jesus's house. Right? There's that mobile tabernacle dwelling thing. Anyways, back to the point. So if If we are, thinking about Jesus utilizing labels as, you know, these lepers, there were ten of you, where's the other nine, and now you, this one being a Samaritan. Is There, like, a a reversal here of the labeling? Like, once you became a leper, were you no longer a Samaritan? Do people look at you as a leper Samaritan? Or are they just like, you're now you're the leper is the thing that you are. Right. Like, it's the dominating characterizing trait Who you are, but now he's like and now there's a Samaritan. It's like and is that condescending, or is that an insult, or is that like a revisiting his identity. Yeah. You know, like, you're you're I don't even I don't see you as leper anymore, and I'll see you as a Samaritan. I like, because there's still characterization to them. Are you guys getting my flow here? So you have people who were alcoholics. They get sober. Like, are we supposed to still call them alcoholics even though they're sober, or is there a peeling back there Where they're now, like, a mother or, well, I don't know. Some other kind of label.
[00:00:00.00] - Jeff Sherrod
What's up, everyone? Welcome to the church community for God's sermon podcast. In this podcast series, We will be reviewing the various sermons that went over the course of a month by different Speakers that are correlative to the monthly value that we have at our church. This last month, the value was Thanksgiving. And we have with us today two of those speakers, mister Jeff Sherrod and Brett Madron. And the guy over there that you see who is very well prepared, Mitchell Buchanan, is my cohost in this series, and I'm Gregg Garner. We are super excited to be able to do this for you guys because I think the best conversations with respect to what happens on a Sunday morning, come after the sermon. Yeah. And I know that you can ask a preacher, you know, what are you speaking on this Sunday? And they kinda tell you, but, really, the words I wanna hear from them happen after the sermon. And that's kind of what we're gonna get a peek into. Like, their thoughts after the sermon, how They not just felt it went, but whether or not the message was communicated in the way that they intended it to be and whether it was received in that way. And we can bring up clarifying points and then really just see where it goes from there as we continue the conversation. So this church For GOD podcast is focused on the sermon series itself. And for this month, it was the value of Thanksgiving. I'm a go ahead and turn it over to my cohost, Mitchell, who's gonna kick us off with a question. I'm just kidding. He's gonna do that next. First, we're gonna hear from Brett and Jeff. Yep. And What I what I was hoping you guys could do for everybody is give us a quick summary on your sermon. Like, what was your verse? What was it that you were trying to drive home in terms of a point related to Thanksgiving? And then we're gonna turn it over to Mitch who will be very well prepared for when that happens, So prepared. Look at all these papers. Yeah. I'll I'll start out. So the the passage I went over was Luke seventeen. This is the passage of the ten lepers, and one comes back and and gives us thanks, to Jesus for what happens. You know, I try to say even in in the sermon that initially, this might just come off like a miracle sermon, you know, like, Maybe I'm not saying just a miracle sermon, but that's my how you read it is Jesus is awesome. Right. But there's so much subtlety, I think, in this passage. So there was things I was trying to do. Maybe a few things I was trying to do. One was to draw this distinction between faith and thanksgiving, because that's the thing that gets noted by Jesus at the end as your has made you well. And so it kind of has you asked the question, like, what was the faith that this man showed in this passage? You know, he was healed. He was with the other ten, but there's something distinct About him as opposed to the other nine. So something I was trying to do, also draw a little distinction between, the being made well, which is what Jesus says at the end, and also being healed. Note that Thanksgiving can always happen. Right. It can always happen, because it's the work of God in our life that we can be thankful for. So, yeah, those are some of the the main points. Yeah. Thank you thank you for that. And I have a lot of questions for you Okay. With respect to your your sermon and the points you're making. So I'm excited to get into that. Brett, give us a preview. Yeah. Mine was mine was, 1 Thessalonians 05:16 through eighteen. Rejoice always. Pray without ceasing. Give thanks in all circumstances for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. So, pretty straightforward text on the face. I think with this with this exhortation, it's a tall order. The the the sort of all encompassing qualifiers of Always without ceasing in all circumstances. Paul gives this, and I think there could be, like, a knee jerk reaction to, like, this is this is a very demanding text. And I think we have to get past that and recognize that, really, the power in this text is us Practicing these things and moving towards doing these things as disciplines, and and And incorporating them and and seeing how doing these things actually will mature our perspective on Whatever season of life we're going through, and and I think, they they all require a choice. They all they all are a decision to make, whether it's prayer, Thanksgiving, choosing joy, there there's something that we have to make a decision about regardless of Kind of how we might feel in a particular moment. Thanks, Brett. Yeah. Mitch, hit us with a question. What question? Could be any any number of them. I'm just messing. Gregg keeps pointing out that I came prepared, which is somehow a negative in such context, but , this is fun. I love doing this. A question I had, I think we can just start with Jeff, which was kinda playing on Luke 17. So, in our accountability groups, we obviously wanna spur people on To do better, to hold accountability. I'm like, hey, are you engaging with the Lord? Are you living out your faith? And I think Luke 17, it was that thanksgiving was an instrumental part for that man to be made well. Not just to be healed. They were all healed. But I think him returning, it was that he was made well. So I think in our accountability groups, I was just trying to, like, think through, like, when we want to, I think, Hold someone to account or if, like, someone's not doing well, which that can be so many people in the midst of, what life is throwing at them. If they're not doing well, How can we urge them or push them to, I think, recognize that they can be made well through thanksgiving? Like, that man took initiative. He had to turn back, but it's not like It's not something you can do for someone else. So I was just trying to think on, like, not just a practical manner of like, "Hey, how's it going?" Like, There's ways that we wanna intercede for people, but it seems like it's hard to do that if they don't have that in and of themselves to want to be made well. Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, I think just off the top of my head, I do think that there is a correlation between thanksgiving and and faith. And one of the things that I think we're always trying to do is push each other onto greater faith. And I think in in terms of how that works practically sometimes is that, and this is where complaint and grumbling can contrast thanksgiving because complaint and grumbling when it's not accountable and it's just thrown out there, I think it's, Gregg's used the word before, like, disintegrating. You know, it kind of gets people into a pattern where they start to move away from social relationships. They're not engaging the same way, where faith and thanksgiving, I think, does the opposite. It moves us closer to one another, And I think that's maybe a way that we can help each other to evaluate our words is like, hey. Is this something that's moving you to Greater social you know, not just friend, like in a worldly sense, but friends in a biblical sense where we're together, we're serving one another, We're supporting one another. We're loving each other day after day as long as it's called today. And I think that that's what should happen. And so we're making decisions, like Brett said, to Practice thanksgiving. And as we do that, hopefully, the kind of integration that we have even our accountability groups goes up. So maybe that would be the accountability. I would say is, like, But if you're not, like, where where does this go other than maybe just disintegrate? But in this text, the the lepers really don't have much to say about anything. Right. Right? They're just, for the most part, recipients of something Jesus did Right. Until one voices thanksgiving. So we don't really get that other side of the coin where we hear the complaining or the grumbling from these guys, though There was probably some of that based upon their life circumstance. I think it's easy to think that sometimes when people complain or grumble, They, they don't have anything to complain and grumble about, but often people do. Yeah. There's something going on in their lives. Right. Right. For these guys, there was something there. But What's an interesting observation is that the text gives no voice to the complaining and grumbling, Just the desire for them to be healed, to be made well. Yeah. And I think another way to help people Be accountable is to help them understand, and you pose it in your last question, like, asking them where this is going. That while you have something to complain about, I think our culture, really emphasizes letting someone tell their story, letting someone's Voice be heard. I'm not really seen unless I've, like, said all the terrible things that are happening to me. And it's like While there's there seems to be some importance on that. This text does a real radical move and doesn't give any voice to that. We don't hear about their situation. We only have it labeled, and that's also countercultural for us to just label something. Oh, his problem is that he has, this label. You know? He 's got a hyperactivity disorder. She's got trauma. Like, that feels bad to our culture. But the text, it's like they're lepers. Right. Right. Yeah. They're just classified By this, you know, label. Yeah. Whenever I think about text, I always go modern, And I just think how offensive this would be. Hey. Let me tell you guys a story. There are these ten ADHD guys. They're just Dude, they were very ADHD. ADHD. So ADHD. They're all gonna respond by saying it's more complicated than that. And then and then Jesus just told them, hey. Why don't you guys go back to your therapist, take a test or something and find out that you can get off the meds or whatever it is. Yeah. Like, everybody's already offended by my story. Like, right now. Yeah. But when we tell it About lepers and you know? Because the the leprosy was preventing them from the integrative health That comes from having community. And when you're asking about accountability, the text, Jesus acts surprised.. Maybe is the wrong word. Maybe there's a better word. He definitely Comments and says, were there not Nine others of you guys? Where are they? And then he notes that this guy who's a Samaritan . Is the one who comes and turns the experience into something that does culminate in his Wellness. So in trying to make sense of that with respect to accountability, my question for you guys is, Like, is there a responsibility for us to recognize the work that someone else has done in our lives to bring about, healing and restoration. And that without that expressive gratitude, wellness is is, not part of the formula. Like, you don't get wellness unless you learn To turn back around. Because, you know, you you look at life as we go through life. Right? Yeah. I think for a lot of people, they go through life. They experience things. Hardships happen. Something creates in them a disintegrating experience. They now can be labeled by that thing. They get help from somebody, but then they move forward in life. And it's like, thank you for helping me. I'm now well, and I'm just gonna go forward in life and move on with my life. But this text seems to Highlight the one who stopped going in that direction, turned back around and, gave thanks and had that, like, moment, with with Jesus. So is it just limited to thanks to God? Does Jesus here represent anybody Who's a a son or daughter of God that God is using to bring about the kind of integrated, healing and Wellness that people need. What do you guys think? Well yeah. And that's what I try to say that, you know, because I think someone could say, well, Jesus is god, and I wanna say, yeah. We know that. But to what degree would the leper have known that? Is that the point of that the story is trying to say? We know a leper wouldn't. Right. Yeah. So it seems like the communication would be That this is a thing to the the child and or the, you know, son or daughter of God who has done something instead of just, You know? But how often do we redirect people? Like, in terms because I think your question's good, Mitch. Like, yours is pragmatic. And I like having you on the show because gonna be probably more conceptual, and you're gonna be more pragmatic about things. Absolutely. Like, you're you're talking about our accountability groups, and I get that we can move people identify when they're complaining and grumbling. But, again, people feel the need to tell their story, and and it's gonna culminate in a label, and we just kinda gotta get over selves. You know, like, I can say my last couple years has definitely been characterized by elements of grief, like deep forms of grief. And, you know, that's what it is. But I also wanna be well. And and I think that there that moving forward in life, I should, Like, the accountability I need is for me to turn back around and then go say thank you to the people that have allowed me to still be a part of their world. To me, you know, like that's, like, that's a really healthy practice. Yeah. I think even I think your last statement made me think there's part of the An accepted part of the the story, the narrative is that they're lepers. They clearly know they're lepers, and you brought that up. Like, the whole town knows they're lepers. Jesus does. So I think even if it's like, hey. I have my hurts. This is where I'm coming from. If that's all concealed and it's not, like, being vulnerable, if it's not in the open, I think there is a power in just accepting, like, hey. This is, like, where I lack. This is, like, where I've been hurt. This is where I've had trauma. Whatever the the line is, and it's like being able to, I think, see your worldview in so far as, like, I am in need. I have this thing. If we come even as practicals come to our accountability groups and we're just shrouding whatever hurts is or whatever our pains are, and we're not willing to say, Hey. I'm gonna put my cards on the table. I'm a leper in these ways, or it's like, hey. I am addicted to my phone, or I'm addicted to this. It's like, I've one of my accountability groups, I had to tell them, I sleep on the couch five nights a week. I was like, I feel okay with it, but it's really not normal. I don't know. But unless we I think we have, like, literally revealing those warts that we have, that it's like I don't think we can find the full. We can't be made well unless I think we're staring down, like, all those issues and allowing someone to, like, reflect back and help. And I think, you know, the interaction is, such a part of that because we can only imagine to what degree we have our problems or imagine to what degree We are a leper, but when someone else is able to minister to us and able to, like, engage in that, I think we can find that. It's so interesting too. Jesus is very comfortable with the labels or at least Luke is. Right? So if he's not a leper, he's a Samaritan. Right. Right? Yeah. Like, they're just real broad Labels on the people. So I was wondering, like, now that he's he's both healed and well, will he be known as the guy who used to be a leper, who's a Samaritan? Like, how do you understand that? Because I'm thinking about other people. Like, you're talking about folks who have, like, addictions and stuff or or certain kinds of labels. I I know that that's so much part of their story . That they even celebrate the fact that they, have overcome. Yeah. You know? They maybe were an alcoholic. And so now they're like, I'm ten years sober or whatever it is. Right. They're not an alcoholic now, but then some people be like, but you are. You're always an alcoholic once you're an alcoholic. So you're an alcoholic who's not done alcohol in ten year s...You know, the identity is still tied to the thing. So, like, Does wellness, resituate the label? Like, this one being a Samaritan, was Jesus just highlighting for us The fact that this guy comes from, an because, you know, there are theological implications here. Right? Yeah. One of the theological implications is that Samaritans Didn't believe in the Davidic covenant. And so the thought that the temple in Jerusalem would be the legitimate place for forgiveness and cleansing, specified in Solomon's work to them is is illegitimate. Right. Right? So the Samaritans, they they were more on onto the the Moses and and the prophets. Yeah. And so their theology makes it so that what Luke's trying to present or any of the gospel writers in Jesus as, like, that mobile tabernacle For God. I mean, just a a few, I guess, twelve chapters before this. You you do have, everybody at Jesus going to houses, people being at Jesus's house. Right? There's that mobile tabernacle dwelling thing. Anyways, back to the point. So if If we are, thinking about Jesus utilizing labels as, you know, these lepers, there were ten of you, where's the other nine, and now you, this one being a Samaritan. Is There, like, a a reversal here of the labeling? Like, once you became a leper, were you no longer a Samaritan? Do people look at you as a leper Samaritan? Or are they just like, you're now you're the leper is the thing that you are. Right. Like, it's the dominating characterizing trait Who you are, but now he's like and now there's a Samaritan. It's like and is that condescending, or is that an insult, or is that like a revisiting his identity. Yeah. You know, like, you're you're I don't even I don't see you as leper anymore, and I'll see you as a Samaritan. I like, because there's still characterization to them. Are you guys getting my flow here? So you have people who were alcoholics. They get sober. Like, are we supposed to still call them alcoholics even though they're sober, or is there a peeling back there Where they're now, like, a mother or, well, I don't know. Some other kind of label. That's my sense and I'm trying to think through this thing. It's great question.
[00:18:45.09] - Gregg Garner
the integrating component. Right? Like, you talked about the wellness element is the social integrating aspect of the text. Is that labeling part of that?
[00:18:56.20] - Jeff Sherrod
And I don't know. I'm really interested in this. I Appreciate sometimes even if we're thinking about, like, you know, the lessons that come from AA where someone's like, you know, I'm an alcoholic, but I've been sober for ten years. I appreciate that. I think that it's Because it to me, it doesn't continue to label them simply an alcoholic, but someone who has overcome, But still has proclivities. And I think that that being part of their identity.. So this go
[00:19:20.90] - Gregg Garner
identity.. So this go back to your point that you don't have to be healed to be well?
[00:19:25.29] - Jeff Sherrod
I think that we're .. I think part of my point was that we all , healing is is temporary. You know, it's like, we're because...
[00:19:33.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
may not come.
[00:19:35.50] - Jeff Sherrod
may not come. Yeah. The way that we we think. And if that's gonna be the con if we're waiting on something that we've decided now the thing that's hard in this passage is that they were healed. So, like, you know and I think that's where you do think about it. It's like, well, the example we get Here is that they are made well. They are clean. So we don't have the counterexample, here.
[00:19:56.00] - Gregg Garner
because I was thinking based on your sermon and based on the text, And , I mean, I heard people in the congregation amen real quickly when you're like, so can you be, made well and not be healed? And I heard a lot of people Amen that. And so there's there's apparently either faith that is geared towards that kind of belief In in our church, or people have had that experience, and so they're agreeing that that's they're testifying to that truth. But in this text, you're right. They are healed, but not everyone is made well. Right. And that, You know, the it was the faith that made them well because you do make the distinction between wellness and healing. Yeah. It's the faith that makes well Because we do know that it was not their faith that made them healed. Yeah. That was Jesus's faith. Jesus is the one who did that. Yeah. They Their faith did not make them healed, but their faith --- his faith, the one guy's faith made him well. And so if the the wellness is the integrating Criteria. Like, how does one, demonstrate that wellness? So you take our example again, Where yeah. We can all appreciate the testimony of overcoming, but then you bring up that they may still have this proclivity towards alcohol. So in that case, Are they healed? I guess they're not, but they're well enough that they can reengage social scenarios That might bring about that temptation and they they not, engage in the temptation. How how does that work?
[00:21:32.70] - Jeff Sherrod
mean, I think that if ..
[00:21:35.79] - Mitchell Buchanan
think we're If we're approaching Jeff like he was an alcoholic. Like, Jeff has been Well, let me tell you that.
[00:21:41.40] - Gregg Garner
we're just using that as an example. There's there's there's so many other examples here. Listen. We can talk about your couch sleeping proclivities, I guess.
[00:21:49.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
Tread lightly, Garner.
[00:21:52.20] - Gregg Garner
Addiction to the phone or addiction to some like, any anything that, like, right, this is a placeholder For the conversation, whatever the label is . There's a distinction here between the healing and the wellness, And I just kinda wanna find out how that works. Because if you are gonna keep someone accountable to that, do you, do you let someone keep noting that label connected to their ailment, their illness, even after they're healed or well. Like, so if I can be well without being healed, And let's say that my issue we'll we'll pick a different one? My issue is that I have OCD. K. I I'm an OCD kinda guy. Okay? And, I'm well because I'm integrated back in with everybody. But I'm not healed because I still have the tendencies. Do you still treat me like an OCD person? Do I still treat myself like an OCD person?
[00:23:02.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. And I don't know. I don't know if there's, I don't know. I'm trying to think through, like, the difference maybe between alcoholism and OCD. I'm just trying to find something hear what you're saying.
[00:23:10.90] - Gregg Garner
a person is is Labeled or identified by that very thing that prevents them from integration
[00:23:18.20] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:23:18.50] - Gregg Garner
Or can prevent them from From being integrated in with with other people. You know, if you're an alcoholic and you get invited to one of Jesus's weddings and he turns everything into wine, That could feel that might feel a little rough to you. like, Jesus, why'd you do that? You know you know my condition. Or whatever it is. Or, you know, on the other side, people, engage and integrate into those situations all the time, and they demonstrate elements of self control. I just I I think we live in an age where everybody is trying to Self diagnose. Mhmm. Everybody's trying to find out what's the thing that's keeping me from living my fullest life. I must have some kind of problem Because things aren't Working out. And how come I don't have a lot of friends? How come I can't, have that one person that's there for me that I can confide in? We look on social media, and we see people have birthday parties, and they're being celebrated for this, and they're being invited out to this dinner. And we're, like, going, you know, what about me? What is making me the leper in this scenario? Oh, it must be my fill in the blank kinda thing. I have, anger issues. I have to work so much, and we don't have expendable income, so I can't -- whatever it is.
[00:24:27.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:24:27.79] - Gregg Garner
I'm just curious about what Jesus did here that made this guy well, but it was, again, his faith.
[00:24:36.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah.
[00:24:36.29] - Gregg Garner
Because Jesus did the healing. This guy's faith is noted by Jesus as making well. What responsibility do we have when we're labeled as something to now, like, by faith, Move into a position of wellness, which culminates apparently in Thanksgiving. You know? I I it's it's there there has to there seems to be some ownership that the individual has The take over their their their wellness scenario, their integrated.
[00:25:03.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right? For sure.
[00:25:04.70] - Gregg Garner
So do we keep people accountable to that? Like, bro, I know that you you aren't wanting to, get into social situations or be around people like that, but, Man, let's get well here. Come on out. Come out to this thing. Mhmm. Go ahead. I I interrupt you.
[00:25:20.20] - Brett Madron
No. I was just gonna say, I think the the Thanksgiving element Becomes part of the story you tell as a person on the other side of experience healing. And, I'm not sure about the label thing yet, but I think at least on the other side of healing, you you have a story to tell From that point forward, and part of that story is your your your thankfulness for having been healed, and that becomes a testimony Moving forward to to other people. So I I it it my sense is that the label after the healing feels unhealthy. And I don't I haven't worked all that out, obviously, but it feels like a person could still kinda cling to that or feel like, Oh, people misunderstand me if I keep being labeled in that way versus yeah. I used to be that way. I experienced healing. Thankful for That for these people that that helped me work through that, but I am a different person on the
[00:26:19.59] - Mitchell Buchanan
It feels like for In society that after healing, the label will still exist. It'll still affect you. You know, it's like I think even in John 9, the man who was blind is, like, made to see. Like, he goes to the temple and, like, hey. Weren't you blind? Like, people have an association that's very strong
[00:26:39.59] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:26:40.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
With a label that's been attached to you, whether . .. Even if it's Like, procrastinator or whatever it is. Like, hey. People are gonna see you through that lens for a while until they get a new, like, normative set for them. So I think it's natural for that to exist in society. I think for A person who has been healed, I think to continue to, like, understand their life through that same lens is inaccurate. It's like They don't have that issue anymore or they they've been healed from that issue. They shouldn't see themselves through that same prism. Does that make sense? I had a quote from Jeff Rodan. I was gonna bring up. I think it's along these lines. It's there's a distinction between being healed and being made well. We thank God because we don't always know what has been done in our lives. So it's I think the thankfulness along the way even during as you're labeled a leper, we're thankful of all that God has done in our life, of how God is continuing to to move in our life. And then even after healing, That thankfulness carries us through to being made well, that we're, like, you know, been reintegrated, and we have, like, a different sense of of who we are. I think we're, made whole in that way. So I think it's that marker of, like, whether I'm labeled as the guy on the couch Who I used to do it or if I, like, still slept on the couch a few nights ago, I probably did, that, I'm thankful throughout the whole process. I'm thankful during like, while I'm in that affliction or while I'm being affected up until after I've been healed, I'm still thankful. And, like, that thankfulness is what's driving my faith and driving me to being made well that I'm not even if I may still do that, I'm not the same person. I'm not restricted to what that label means. I'm not blind anymore. I can see, so I shouldn't be held to that. And I think it's that I think what you kinda mentioned is that we're We're thankful. We thank God because we don't always know what's been done. Like, whether we feel like we're under the tyranny of this label or we've been brought out, if we just continue to demonstrate thankfulness, it'll engage our faith where that label won't hold the power it it used to. That's a thought I had at least.
[00:28:47.29] - Jeff Sherrod
I and I think to clarify, at least from what I was trying to say just so I don't diminish it, Is I think healing is important in the passage. Right? Jesus shows mercy. They request it. Healing is important. What I was Trying to bring up is that you know, I think part of it, the the kind of faith and thankfulness that the the Samaritan shows at the end is part of a mindset that, Hopefully, he just has, and it's not triggered by...
[00:29:14.59] - Gregg Garner
So let me just ask it real clearly then. Can you be well and not be healed?
[00:29:19.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Yes. That's what I'm saying.
[00:29:20.90] - Gregg Garner
And and how did you get that from the text again? Because they were all healed.
[00:29:25.09] - Jeff Sherrod
They were all healed. Yes. But at the same time, I think that This guy, it's not like he's never going to experience any kind of calamity again. It's not like he's he's done with sickness for the rest of his life. There's gonna be something that's gonna happen to him again that I think that he could, even based on that experience and meeting Jesus, experience wellness in how he acts. And I think part of that comes from the mindset that we have, that we know that we have everything that we need for life and godliness. Like, we're making decisions by faith to say, I have experiences in my life that I don't experience healing or that I don't feel like it's been done. I'm asking God, it hasn't happened. Maybe we're I don't know, you know, exactly how we're interpreting, you know, Paul's request to remove the thorn, But then still experience that the the kind of wellness that can happen.
[00:30:17.40] - Gregg Garner
And and I get what you're saying from, Like a theological standpoint where we can synthesize a bunch of text. But in this text in particular, it it just seems difficult To make that claim when all of them are healed.
[00:30:32.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Because we don't have a counterexample. You're right.
[00:30:35.79] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. Because I just I wonder what that does for someone, in terms of understanding wellness and healing because I guess the implication is is healing a prerequisite for wellness. And your your answer would be no. My answer is no. Right? And which is great. And the the the text, however, has people healed, but it also makes a distinction between them being healed and them experiencing Wellness.
[00:31:04.90] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:31:05.50] - Gregg Garner
So we can put together that they're two different things.
[00:31:09.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. They have to be. Yeah. Right?
[00:31:10.20] - Gregg Garner
And then that so then it's the faith of the individual That demonstrably has Jesus noting wellness. Right. And that faith was demonstrated in Thanksgiving.
[00:31:23.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:31:24.90] - Gregg Garner
So that's how we synthesize your point. Right? That, if if we want to focus on wellness, Wellness is going to be on the other side of turning back around, Going to those in our lives who are the children of God, who have contributed towards our healing even if the healing hasn't fully taken place. I I was curious to look at the text too in the Greek because it does have that kinda continuous phraseology of as they were on the way.
[00:31:55.79] - Jeff Sherrod
On the way. Yeah.
[00:31:56.70] - Gregg Garner
On the way. So I was curious. Did I don't know if you looked at it, but, you know, there's the verb tense that allows for us to examine that that maybe you know, we don't have it in English, where, you know, that that that, heiress consideration where, like, something has happened and is happening.
[00:32:16.79] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. Mhmm.
[00:32:17.50] - Gregg Garner
You know? We don't know how to we don't have a way of parsing that out or spelling it out in English. That makes sense. So I was wondering if you you took a look at that because That wouldn't probably make more sense to me that as they were on their way, they were having this experience of healing.
[00:32:33.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:32:33.40] - Gregg Garner
And while this guy realized that he was being healed because that's the way you would translate it. Right? Being healed.
[00:32:39.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Being healed. Yeah.
[00:32:40.09] - Gregg Garner
That while he realized he was being healed, he turned around to give thanks. And so I wonder if If, you know, our healing journey, which is gonna culminate in wellness, it is going to be excited By turning around, stopping in our tracks on this process of healing to offer Thanksgiving. Because I know as, you know, in two thousand eighteen diagnosed with stage three cancer. I and I focused on the healing. You know, my diet changed. I lost Fifty pounds because I dropped sugar and carbs and and, like, my sociability went out the window because I was doing therapies thirty hours a week. And And, like, I just really focus on healing, but I the the wellness happened when my my wife encouraged me and encouraged my friends around me that I needed time To have a a social outlet Mhmm. And and to just have, because because, even my therapist at the time said I could do nothing meaningless. And I said, I can't if it's meaningful. And so Tara Tara, like like, told me we're gonna have, meaningful, meaningless fun. And, we we just started doing some things together, and they're they're they're I had to enact faith because the people that were around me, I I had to stop seeing them as distractions from my road to healing or just, you know, utility players on my road to healing. Like, Kristen's making my juices. Julie and Catherine are making juices, and I'm getting meals from All the juice. Families. You know? Like, Instead of just seeing them as utility players on my way to healing because my healing's way over there and I'm running for it, like, I wanna stop. Yeah. On this on this journey of healing, turn around, say thank you to everybody, and then feel the integrating wellness. And and I think that's what changed in me, after that first, year. It it, it I was different after that. But just concentrating on my healing, when I look at these lepers here, that's what I see them doing. They're just like, let's just keep concentrating on this healing journey. We're gonna go all the way to the temple.
[00:34:42.59] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:34:42.90] - Gregg Garner
But there's this one guy who turns around, turns it into thanksgiving, and then Jesus notes that kind of faith, Which then makes him well. Anyways
[00:34:52.90] - Jeff Sherrod
I think that's a great consideration. You know? I I mean, the text seems to, It says, "and on the way". So noting that there's this process that you're all in. Because even for you after that year, maybe you're not totally healed.
[00:35:05.19] - Gregg Garner
No. I wasn't.
[00:35:05.80] - Jeff Sherrod
But you're note you're, like, saying, but I'm gonna do something different, right now. It's not just the destination that I'm going to.
[00:35:12.59] - Gregg Garner
Right. And I didn't stop myself. Like, we have this video that was about, I don't know, seven, eight months After my big accident in 2011 and we were leading worship for a few thousand kids over in, I was on the other side of Murfreesboro at Embassy Suites.
[00:35:32.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
I would not have guessed Embassy.
[00:35:33.90] - Gregg Garner
They have a big conference hall.
[00:35:35.30] - Mitchell Buchanan
We could be here for three hours, I would not have guessed embassy Suites on the other side.
[00:35:38.80] - Gregg Garner
I just remembered it. So, anyways, they're playing there, and you could hear the kids because someone was recording with the camera or the phone camera. And, one of my It just goes, daddy's daddy's jumping. Daddy's jumping. Because I just got back into the band. And I remember feeling like, man, I don't know if I can do this. But I was like, I'm gonna do it. And in in doing that, it ignited in other people, rejoicing. We're together.
[00:36:03.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:36:03.59] - Gregg Garner
And and for me, it it was like I was just so thankful To be there, to be with, be be doing that again. But I remember feeling super sore The next day, and I I was like, man, I'm gonna pay for this for for a couple weeks. But I I think that, it goes to your point that wellness and healing, they they they they healing does not have to happen in its fullness, but I do think there's a journey of healing that starts.
[00:36:32.19] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:36:32.50] - Gregg Garner
I'm not sure that it has to be cleared because here's what I would hate. I would hate for somebody to to to hear this and and go, I don't need to be healed to be well, and then they stop their healing journey because they're just like... I don't I just wanna focus on being well now. I don't think that's the intent of the text.
[00:36:49.90] - Jeff Sherrod
I don't think so, no.
[00:36:50.90] - Gregg Garner
I think the intent of the text is to say, on your healing journey, You can be well. Yeah. And I, and I think even when you brought up Joni Eareckson Tada, that's what I hear.
[00:37:01.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:37:02.50] - Gregg Garner
Because there were some things that were done to her that were irreversible.
[00:37:07.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:37:07.59] - Gregg Garner
Right? And she, had to Do rehabilitative things to even express herself in the ways that she learned to, which is part of her healing journey. And she's, like put in work
[00:37:18.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
For sure.
[00:37:18.69] - Jeff Sherrod
Huge amounts of work. Yeah.
[00:37:20.40] - Gregg Garner
But you could hear the wellness in her faith
[00:37:22.69] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:37:23.50] - Gregg Garner
Which was, like, thankful for life, thankful for the people around her.
[00:37:26.69] - Mitchell Buchanan
Mhmm.
[00:37:27.09] - Gregg Garner
So that I'm not trying to be a pain in the butt here. I'm just trying to emphasize.
[00:37:32.00] - Jeff Sherrod
And I think it's important that we're not, like, having people who are in a situation where they're like, hey, pray for me. I'm sick. And we're like, well, That's not what this is about. Right. That would be the worst. Because God is Jesus shows his mercy here in healing.
[00:37:44.90] - Gregg Garner
Yeah.
[00:37:45.30] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. And that's like, That's we're learning from Jesus. So it would be,
[00:37:50.19] - Gregg Garner
So it would be, like, emphasizing a healing journey. Like, I'm on my journey of healing. And in the meantime, I can exhibit the kind of faith that's demonstrable through thanksgiving, especially when I stop focusing on the healing journey and turn around And thank God and thank others who've been a part of this healing journey that there's there's some integration that's gonna happen that'll be very good for everybody.
[00:38:10.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:38:10.69] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. I think even a statement, like, if you want to be made well, it always has to start with you, like, pushing to be healed. You know, we're like ..An interconnection like that where it's like there is that personal like, you have to all the ten lepers were there calling towards Jesus. Like, they weren't Inactive, totally. They were calling out. And it's like, everyone should be having that initiative too. Like, hey. I need to be healed. Like, I need to have that vision Yeah. And, like, that goal, that purpose. Now whether everything like, you're I think you brought up a couple times. Like, we're not always gonna be one hundred percent healed of everything. Like, always gonna have some calamity or thing happening, but it's like we're striving to be healed. And in that striving, I think, is where we come Our our faith and our I think how you said it, like, that thankfulness excites and, like, animates us towards like, hey. Like, I can, like, I'm not just stuck with this ailment that, like, I'm moving towards being made well. The you know, Jesus recognizes, like, you are made well because of your faith. So it's like that's really that interplay of, like, our initiative that we're bringing towards, I think, this process of our faith and how we're, like, living it out. Super cool.
[00:39:23.09] - Gregg Garner
Hey. I know you gotta roll, man. We're gonna let you go because we still need to talk to Brett about a couple things. Love you, bro.
[00:39:28.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Thanks so much, guys. Love you guys.
[00:39:29.50] - Gregg Garner
Jeff Sherrod, everybody. Give him a hand. Give him a hand.
[00:39:34.59] - Brett Madron
very important guest.
[00:39:36.30] - Gregg Garner
Love you, man. Thank you so much.
[00:39:37.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
Tell those guests we said, hey. Alright? I can't wait to find out who it was.
[00:39:40.80] - Gregg Garner
Really? Mitch has no idea what Jeff's doing. He is making things up.
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