In this Podcast, the Host Mitch Buchanan and Speakers Jeff Sherrod and Brett Madron discuss the importance of forgiveness and reconciliation in maintaining unity within a community of believers. The speakers emphasize the need for open communication, genuine apologies, and addressing conflicts with humility and sincerity. They highlight the interconnectedness of individuals within the community, using metaphors of the body and family. The conversation is based on biblical principles from the book of Ephesians, focusing on modeling forgiveness after God. Ultimately, the speakers stress the significance of integration and reconciliation for the overall well-being and functioning of the community.
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[00:00:09.80] - Mitchell Buchanan
Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome to the sermon podcast at the church community for God. My name is Mitchell Buchanan, and we're here with a couple of our preachers that have spoken the last month. Brett Madren, on my right, your left. Jeff Sherrod over here on my left, your right. Hello. We've done a couple of these with the same crew. We are missing Greg for this one, but we're still pumped to talk through Jeff's sermon who spoke on forgiveness. And so we'll just let him kind of intro the verses he talked about and a couple of the key points, and we'll just launch from there.
[00:00:46.39] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. So this is from Ephesians four, and I guess I'll read here. This is verse thirty two, through five one a. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another just as God in Christ has also forgiven you. Therefore, be imitators of God as beloved children. So, yeah, there's a few things that I was trying to get. I kinda said my two major points that I was trying to get across at the end. One is that It's a program. What's that? Hey. Here are
[00:01:14.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
my two points.
[00:01:14.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:01:15.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
I didn't I didn't do that one.
[00:01:16.59] - Jeff Sherrod
So, yeah, two things I was trying to get is that forgiveness is integrative. It it it it's it's one of the vehicles that we use to make sure that we're in unity, and perhaps one of the principal vehicles that we use. And then the second thing is that, forgiveness is modeled, by God. So if we're wondering how should we do this, we should look to see how God did this.
[00:01:38.79] - Brett Madron
yeah. That was great. Yeah.
[00:01:39.20] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. No. I I think it was great. And we can just kinda kick off. I wrote down, a statement that stuck out to me that even in a podcast we did with with Greg, I think this touched on a topic that I think will should bring some fruitful conversation. So you made a statement in working through conflict and trying to find forgiveness. Can we defend every single action we take? We probably can. Should we? I don't think so. Instead of just defending, can't we just say I'm sorry? So I I think even in that sentiment that when we're in conflict with someone, right, I think there's even Greg brought up, like, hey. If if someone has taken offense to me, life isn't as clean-cut of, like, we deal with one offense. I I apologize. They forgive, and we move on. Like, we have so many interactions and layers to how we know each other where if you come like, Mitch, I'm offended. There could be something I'm offended at you about that I just haven't I've been, you know, trying to say Jeff didn't mean it. He's totally fine. But then you're bringing up this conflict. I'm like, well, guess what? I've got conflict with you. Mhmm. And it's like, there's a lot to talk about. But I think in Ephesians four, we kind of have to hold two things at the same time where it starts off of, like, speaking the truth in love.
[00:02:59.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:02:59.69] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right? So it's like, we wanna hold on to that truth and be truthful. At the same time, like, your your premises forgiveness as integration where there's an offense, and we want everyone to, like, hey. Our relationship is not, how it should be. We wanna rectify that so everyone is able to participate in this work that God has for all of us. So I I just wanted to kinda chat through how that played out. Like, if we do have an offense, is there a harm in bringing up actually, I was offended at you. Like, because the aim is to integrate people back to
[00:03:33.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. So I don't I don't think that people should just, like, lay over and play dead. That's what I whatever I what I mean by that is, like, someone says, I hey. You offended me, and you're like, well, I know that I have great reason for why that happens, and you actually completely misunderstood the situation, but I'm gonna apologize anyway. I don't think that that's not what I'm advocating for. What I'm trying to say is that I think that we we have a hard time seeing ourselves, says part of Ephesians. Right? It's like we need Jesus to rip down a dividing wall of hostility
[00:04:08.19] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:04:08.69] - Jeff Sherrod
Because we find ourselves at odds with other people. And I think the other thing is that because we have a hard time seeing ourselves, it we can sometimes defend ourselves in ways that we don't we don't maybe assume. Our first impulse might not be, maybe this person has some good insight. And I think if we're talking about brothers and sisters in the family of faith, and I think that that's what Ephesians is about. Right? It's like as beloved children, you're all part of the body of Christ. These aren't strangers. That's not the point of Ephesians four. These aren't strangers. These are the body of Christ, the dynamic that they're working it out. There's conflict that they have. Someone comes up to someone comes up to me and they say, hey. I don't think that you did this well. My first response, I think, should be like, I think that I should trust their insight and at least deal with that first seriously, before just moving on to being defensive. Now sometimes it can be really clear. Like, sometimes people have because I can be real maybe, you know, real introverted. People have said, hey. I walked by. You didn't say hi at all, and I I wanna know why you're upset with me. I was like, I'm not I'm so sorry. I was, like, thinking about something else, and I didn't even see you there. I'm So, you know, I don't know if that makes it. I'm apologizing, but I'm also trying to give them sense. Like, I wasn't I'm not actually against you. Right. I think that's fine.
[00:05:27.39] - Mitchell Bub
Yeah.
[00:05:28.19] - Jeff Sherrod
But, yeah, I think that this thing, it's like anytime that someone gets, critique, there's always, like, this defense. That feels like maybe there's some lack of self awareness, that might be happening. We we do mess up in life. We make mistakes. Right. And so to say that, like, we don't when people pull it up, I think we all know we make mistakes. Like, until someone says it to us and, like, I don't make mistakes. Yeah. But then when we in our quiet moments, we're like, well, I know we make a lot of mistakes.
[00:05:57.19] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. And I think it's it's always different context. You know, it's like on I think my personality, I don't wanna be a person who makes excuses, and then sometimes they're just not good excuses either. Right? So then it's like, I think when there is an offense brought, I'm like, hey. I'd I I'm wrong or I didn't do it. It's my fault. You know, like, I think starting there. But then I think when it's a personal conflict, it becomes a little different if, like, hey. We offended somebody. Like, hey. You were just a jerk. Mhmm. Or, like, I I I think there's I personally, I'm very dichotomistic where it's like I can be at one way as a basketball coach, one way as a a worker, one way as a family person, as a friend where it's like, one, they don't really bleed into the other a lot of times in, like, how my mind works. But I I I think what I was just trying to say is that when we when we are offended and we're having to work through something that's often very personal, and I think we can kind of approach those differently where it's like, oh, this isn't a big deal. I'm really sorry I didn't mean to, and then kind of, like, move on. But I think once the stakes kind of get increased a little bit, and it's like, well, this is deep rooted. This is, you know, something that we're having to work through and not just like a passing comment of like, oh, hey. Sorry. I didn't see you there. I think the the need in ourselves to justify ourselves increases. You know, it becomes more and more of, like, either I think I get put on a defensive, like, I don't wanna be proven wrong or I don't wanna be yeah. Maybe it's just I don't wanna be in a position of such social deficit of, like, hey. I've screwed up, and I'm, like, in the wrong here that you have to say, like, well, I did it for these reasons, x y z. My wife always makes fun of me. We play a board every time we play a game, as soon as the game's over, I'm like, I thought I could win by, like, moving my night here, and then I thought I was gonna get these resources and be able to do I've heard you do this. Yeah. And then she's like, we all have strategy. Like, why why do we wanna hear what you have to say? And I'm like, I just there's things inside of me I wanna say.
[00:08:06.30] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. And they didn't get materialized.
[00:08:07.89] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right. So in a conflict, I feel like there's that's so natural. Like, hey. I have stuff inside. Like, I'm I'm a thinking person. Here's what I was thinking when that was going on. But it I think it can shut down somebody from having that moment of, like, hey. It's not about, like, all of the rationale of what's going on. It's really about, like, how do we rectify this relationship.
[00:08:28.19] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:08:28.69] - Mitchell Buchanan
Now if my rationale helps that, like, kinda what you're saying of, like, I didn't see you. I'm so sorry. It's like, I'm not trying to justify myself in a way where it's like, I don't I wanna be on the top side of this conflict. It's really just like, hey. I'm opening myself up. Here's what was going on.
[00:08:44.20] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:08:44.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
So I think that we can kind of approach it in that way where it's like, if it leads to, I think, this getting resolved better and not just, let's deal with yours today, and I'm gonna hold my conflict, and now we'll deal with mine tomorrow. It's like, that's not very.
[00:08:57.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah that doesn't feel real. Yeah. I was actually talking to someone just, like, last week, and they have they're like, I need to talk to this person. I've had conflict with them for, I think, it it's two years now. So they're like, conflict? That sounds crazy. But they were like, but I know when I talk to them, they're gonna say, well, why haven't you said anything for two years? and then I'm gonna be apologizing even though I do have this issue. And I was like, dude, you're like you have, like, really run through this scenario. Right. I mean, at some point, just start the conversation and, like, go from there. And, yeah, maybe they'll say that. Maybe they won't. Like, you don't know. But even
[00:09:33.70] - Brett Madron
I think that's where the humility thing also comes in. You you can concede, like, man, I'm sorry. I probably should've brought this up before now.
[00:09:39.79] - Jeff Sherrod
And then just say that. Just start with that. Like, listen. I apologize, first of all, but here's what I also think too.
[00:09:44.50] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:09:44.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Just say that. Yeah. Just let it be
[00:09:46.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
For sure.
[00:09:47.29] - Jeff Sherrod
So I think I I don't think it has to be, like, contrived where it's like, alright. I did my apology today, and then we you can do yours tomorrow.
[00:09:56.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
Like, the Ephesians is anything but contrived. It's like, hey. Speak the truth in love.
[00:10:00.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:10:01.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
Like, we're we're really actively combating, I think, improper thoughts or improper perspectives about where we are to mature into Christ. You know? That that's kind of where the text goes Right. In four. So it's like, by no means should it be I'm just gonna clam up if there's any conflict and or, like, offense. I'm sorry. And then just, like, everything has to be restrained because it's about the other person in that moment. It's about our body, our collective body. It's about one another. And I think your sermon, like, your main point was integration for, you know, participation.
[00:10:36.20] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:10:37.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
Are there moments where that that was such a a point that you reiterated? Are there moments where if we're not getting having this even definitive moment of offense, ask for, you know, forgiveness, forgiveness given, that, like, our participation is just automatically restricted or I think you had said at one point it was like, the body trying to function where signals aren't being sent properly. We're all in this together.
[00:11:14.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:11:14.60] - Mitchell Buchanan
If if you're, you know, the shoulder and I'm the elbow and whatever even if there's a small disconnect, any communication we have or, like, cooperation we have is gonna be hampered. Like, it's not gonna be operating as it should. Is that what is that kind of your thought process when you were saying, integration to participation that were affected otherwise?
[00:11:36.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Or Yeah. So that's and this is where it goes into the body metaphor, you know, overall, because that's certainly part of what's happening in Ephesians four, is that the I I think that we could boil our issues down to, like, ourself. We can make it real personal. Like, I have this issue with this person, and I haven't worked it out, but it's been two years. And I don't think people recognize that, any like, that we get direction from the head. Right. And so, like, in our brain, the way that works is that there's a signal, and there should be an immediate behavior change in our body when that happens. When that doesn't happen, there is a disability, and that's what we would call it. So someone choosing to not forgive or someone not dealing with it is already outside the bounds of the expectation that we have coming from the head. By not doing that, there's we're talking about this something is disabled.
[00:12:28.20] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:12:28.60] - Jeff Sherrod
And that leads to all kinds of issues. So it is important, I think, that when people think about either withholding forgiveness or they have an issue and they won't say they won't, ask for forgiveness, one of those both of those things, They're they're creating disability overall in the body, because they're a part that needs to play to to be part of the body for a functioning society.
[00:12:51.60] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right. For sure. And the good. The I mean, I don't wanna cut you off. The perspective of just interconnectedness and not kind of, like, siloing everything off to it. It's like, hey. It's about me and this one person. It's like, you know, the the thought of, like, our Soma and how Paul would talk about our body and how it relates to one another that it's like, even as an individual, if I'm a stout individual and I don't need other people, if we understand ourselves in a body of Christ, we are affecting other people regardless of what Yeah. We're thinking. So it's like, I think if if we're acting in disobedience to not resolving that conflict, not enduring that conflict and pushing through and finding resolve on the other side, then it's like we're we're getting wonky and we don't even know it. You know, our whole body is getting wonky and it's like, then it takes more people more time. Like, why is this not why is this weird? Or, like, why is this not why is this not working anyway?
[00:13:46.39] - Jeff Sherrod
Sometimes it's just like it can I think it can be that? You can walk into maybe it's church, you know, like, I I don't know. I feel something here, or why are we not connecting to the Lord the right way? There's some disobedience that's happening that is preventing us. And I think that a lack of forgiveness can be one of the principal ways, that we, prevent God's spirit, from moving the way it needs to. I
[00:14:10.79] - Brett Madron
I mean, that's Jesus' thing.
[00:14:12.10] - Jeff Sherrod
That's what he says.
[00:14:12.79] - Brett Madron
Right? Go go make
[00:14:14.70] - Jeff Sherrod
Go make it right with your brother.
[00:14:16.39] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:14:17.39] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. Anytime we're doing Jesus' thing, it feels like it feels like we're doing right. Spot on. You know? Right.
[00:14:23.89] - Brett Madron
Yeah. Doing right, baby.
[00:14:25.60] - Jeff Sherrod
I think, you know, and I think that's why even if it's if that's too hard, that's what I was trying to say, like, in in five one a, imitators of God as beloved children. I like this imagery of children too. I was trying to say, like, in my household, I'm the happiest if my kids are getting along. I mean, that's really that's like all I all I need, actually Yeah. Is if that they can just get along.
[00:14:46.39] - Brett Madron
Yeah. That metaphor really helps you. Once you're a parent, it really helps you.
[00:14:49.20] - Jeff Sherrod
It does help you. Yeah. And if you don't have kids, maybe you can, I don't know? Maybe think about when you were a kid.
[00:14:55.20] - Mitchell Buchanan
I mean, if you're a roommate if you're living with three if three people in a house, two people are having an argument, that sucks, dude. That sucks.
[00:15:02.79] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. That sucks. sucks.
[00:15:03.00] - Mitchell Buchanan
sucks. sucks. It's the same way. It's like you're not escaping the two people you live with
[00:15:05.70] - Jeff Sherrod
It does feel I mean, I think as a parent, it feels elevated. Right? It's like because you're like, I'm You're responsible. I'm responsible for this, and I see these two people that I love, like, the most.
[00:15:15.79] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah.
[00:15:16.10] - Jeff Sherrod
And they can't stand each other right now. And they're just so getting on each other's nerves. I mean, I deal with this every day. So it's like and I just wanna be like, dude, if you can just you made a mistake and you made a mistake. Forgive each other. You know? And so I think that that's, like, what we're children of God, and that's what I was trying to say even in the sermon. Like, if we get to a point where we're like, well, you know, it's been two years since I've talked to my brother because I don't know what they're gonna say. I and that would break a parent's heart.
[00:15:43.60] - Mitchell Buchanan
Mhmm. Right?
[00:15:43.89] - Jeff Sherrod
Like and I think that that's for us to say, like, that's what God's experiencing. He's the father or the children in this situation. So, you know, if we think about integration rather than just, like, we're we're disparate parts of a society that are kind of haphazardly thrown thrown together. Instead, we could use metaphors, like a body imagery or a family metaphor, which are the two that are used in Ephesians. Then it helps us, I think, to think through what this the the importance of integration.
[00:16:12.60] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something else that you had mentioned was basically in a conflict if someone is withholding forgiveness or someone knows, hey. I need to make this right. I need to ask for forgiveness, but they're not doing that. I was just trying to think of practically I think it's easier and maybe it's just my personal experience speaking. It's easier for me to know, hey. I, like, I've wronged Brett, but I don't wanna have this convo. And I don't see him a lot, so I'm not gonna pursue that. Or, you know, I'm, like, withholding that that moment. What are some practical ways that you feel like people are, like, withholding forgiveness? Like, hey. You're asking you know, you're coming to me. Like, hey. I apologize, and we're saying, like, it's not over for me. You know? It's like you're so
[00:16:55.00] - Jeff Sherrod
So I try to bring this up. We actually were talking about this on a previous podcast, where someone says to someone, like, hey. You offended me, and they're like, I'm sorry. But they didn't feel like they meant it. So I think that that's interesting. And now we we do learn from, like, first Corinthians thirteen that love believes all things. And so I think that that's part of what we should move from, is that if someone's like, I'm sorry, even if they didn't, like, say with the kind of sincerity maybe that we were expecting, then we'd be like, okay. They they said they were sorry. You know? And I'm like, I forgave them, and that's what it was. So I think that that it I think it is important that we believe each other.
[00:17:36.29] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:17:36.79] - Jeff Sherrod
Now if someone's like, I'm not sorry, well, then that's Matthew eighteen. And I think we keep it coming back to that one. Right? It's like someone's not sorry because they don't think that they're no wrong. Then bring a mediator. And if you've done it right, you've won your brother back, which is the point. Again, integration of Matthew eighteen.
[00:17:51.79] - Mitchell Buchanan
For sure. Yeah. And then I think, the moment someone just saying I'm not sorry is definitely a bold move.
[00:18:02.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:18:02.79] - Mitchell Buchanan
I I think what you're saying is we should believe, you know, believe everyone. I think whether through injury or through experience where it's like, it can be hard to say, like, hey. I believe everyone. Even in our church, like, hey. I believe everything everybody says. Like, maybe that doesn't even happen. Like, you know, what you're saying, like, our bodies can get messy sometimes. Families can get messy. And I think being willing to kinda delve in there where someone says, like, I'm sorry, and I'm getting, like I'm discerning of, like, I don't believe you. You know, it's like, I think even having the boldness to, I think, explore that or even just make that sad because the biggest danger is in in this moment of reconciliation, forgiveness, and reintegration. Someone's saying, hey. I'm sorry. And then I say, I forgive you, but I still have this discernment or I'm I'm like
[00:18:49.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. But don't you think that's your fault at that point? Like, then I think that you need to be apologizing. The there think
[00:18:55.90] - Brett Madron
Think you could ask, you know, if you if you sense that they're not actually sorry, I think you can you can you can follow-up.
[00:19:06.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. There's certainly apologies where people are like, I'm sorry you felt that way.
[00:19:09.20] - Brett Madron
And that's right. I'm saying even if they just say, I'm sorry, but you get, like, weird body language or whatever, you can just be like, are you sure? Because I I really I really do wanna work this out.
[00:19:19.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:19:19.50] - Brett Madron
Like, I think if you probe them a little more rather than just saying, I don't believe you. Like, that's abrasive.
[00:19:25.40] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah that is.
[00:19:25.90] - Jeff Sherrod
That feels a little much.
[00:19:27.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
It's undoubtedly abrasive.
[00:19:29.59] - Jeff Sherrod
But I hear what you're saying. Yeah. It's like if if there's body language or something else. Yeah.
[00:19:33.29] - Brett Madron
Because it I mean, we do it with our kids all the time. We're like, you aren't really sorry.
[00:19:37.29] - Jeff Sherrod
No. No. No. You're not really sorry. Yeah.
[00:19:38.79] - Mitchell Buchanan
And and I think believing you know, believe everyone that they are truly sorry and having an expectation for truth that it's like, hey. If there's more to say and I have the opportunity, we're in that moment, engaging with each other, I need to say, you know, what the how I'm offended or what is not resolved. Because if, you know, after even this definitive moment passes and, like, I'm still holding on to something, I'm, like, doing my brother wrong, and I'm still causing an injury to the body that exists. So it's like, I think what it it shouldn't just come out as somebody being a jerk and being like, I do not believe you. You know, it's like there you're right. There is a better way to do that, but it the worst scenario would be to go through this process and to still have embedded feelings on either side.
[00:20:22.90] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:20:23.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
So it's like and I I think there should be a boldness from our church community of like, hey. I you know, it the easiest thing is for them to say, hey. I didn't mean to. I'm so sorry. And you're at that point, you've gotten the apology. Oh, you know, I forgive you. Don't worry about it. And then you're leaving, but you still have, you know, the thought process or you're still left with feelings that aren't extinguished. You know? You're still left with, like, hey. Because our our we have we have such a profound way as human beings to, I think, hold on to her or for for that to just not be satisfied with, like, words alone of, like, well, let's see you prove it. You know? Or it's like, you said you're sorry, but, like, there there's still definitive things that I think are wrong with how this is structured or how we went through this plan or how this event went. And it's like, we have a very, I I think as human beings, like, a very deep way that we can, I think, work through those? Maybe it takes time, but it's like, I think when we're in those moments, we shouldn't just think, well, I'll I'll think about it more, and we'll see if it resolves. It's like, no. No. No. Like, we have to say the truth. You know? It's like, hey. I'm still offended by this. You know? It's like because I think, like, I was trying to just kind of spur out there. The worst thing is to end on kind of, like, a try, apology that neither side feels like they're really, like, solved, but it's easiest at that point socially just to move on.
[00:21:52.50] - Brett Madron
Yeah.
[00:21:52.90] - Mitchell Buchanan
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. And I think we have to be willing to kinda delve into, like, hey. It's not most conflicts aren't about the face value. It's like, I felt disrespected, but that played out in you leaving you know, like, I was supposed to ride with you and you left and didn't ask me if I need a ride. It's like, there's deeper seated issues where it's like, I feel like our relationship is not resolved Yeah. If you just let it stay on the surface. And it's like, maybe we have to, you know, work through stuff. Like, John Stewart would he he was on Colbert one time work talking about, just Jews in the world and how there's, like, so many conflicts with the Jewish people and how as a Jewish person, he takes offense. He's like, but you can't just as, like, as woke culture say, like, oh, Kanye, you can never say that. Or, like, Dave Chappelle, you should never, like, bring up Jewish people in the media. John Stewart, like, delves in and says, like, hey. We should be able to have a conversation about stuff. Like, it's where where are we at as a society if we can't even talk about it or say, like, hey. I'm offended in this way. And, like, we have to have a boldness to be able to say that because maybe it is ugly and maybe it it it looks bad, but it's like to to solve, like, a wound, to, like, address a wound, you have to open it up, and it's, like, gonna be painful, and it's gonna, like, sting. But, like, if we take the easiest way out, hey. I'm sorry about that. Okay. They said they're sorry about leaving me, but, like, we're not addressing this deep issue, but it's like you'll just close over. It's gonna get worse.
[00:23:20.70] - Jeff Sherrod
It's gonna get worse. I think at the same time, though, what gets stressed in the New Testament is words. And and words do words are important. So if we're like, he said sorry, but I really want him to do penance. I need ten years of no bad action for me to really forgive this person. Then that's not, like, that's not the biblical model either. It's and and that's why I think that words matter. If someone does say that they're sorry and it feels feels nice, then I think that we do need to say, alright. I'm gonna move forward.
[00:23:53.40] - Mitchell Buchanan
That's a definitive moment.
[00:23:54.70] - Jeff Sherrod
That's a definitive moment. Now if you can be like, I walked away from that experience, and I still don't feel settled. I'm gonna go back to that person. I mean, yeah. Sure. Like, go back to that person. You might need to start with an apology. Like, hey. I'm sorry I didn't bring this up last time. I'm still a little unsettled. I mean, what's the person gonna do? Like, well, no. We already did this. But at some point, we have to believe one another.
[00:24:14.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
Right.
[00:24:15.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Like, that's what it comes down to is and that's where there's faith involved in this whole thing. The whole thing is faith. Mhmm. The person who's forgiving is is acting in faith. The person who's asking for it is acting in faith. Recognizing that forgiveness really means I'm clearing debt, but it's it's fiat. Right? It's something that we do in space and time in speech act, to say, like, this speech act has changed our existence. Mhmm. Yeah. And and I'm gonna move forward with this speech. I think that's what gets stressed.
[00:24:45.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. No. That's we and if we don't if we aren't believing, if we aren't taking each other for you know? It it everything's undermined. Everything is now, like, I can't trust anyone. I'm approaching everything with a level of criticalness that is actually unhealthy because I am only trying to preserve, I think, what is being done to me or how I'm living out. Trusting opens yourself up of, like, hey. I'm trusting that we're good.
[00:25:14.09] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:25:14.40] - Mitchell Buchanan
I think we're on, you know, like, that we're on good terms. Like, let's move forward
[00:25:18.29] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:25:18.90] - Mitchell Buchanan
In doing all this, you know, activity of the kingdom of God together.
[00:25:22.40] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah.
[00:25:22.90] - Mitchell Buchanan
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I didn't wanna, I I think, deflect that words don't matter. I was maybe just trying to stress moments of conflict are definitive moments to workout issues. Not don't let that be papered over by the easiest route to getting out of that conversation. If you have more to say, say it.
[00:25:42.50] - Jeff Sherrod
Say it. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:43.09] - Brett Madron
Yeah. Yeah. I get that.
[00:25:43.70] - Mitchell Buchanan
When someone and when someone expresses that, well, you should be feel free to express ourselves in whatever injury we feel like we've sustained and having a real moment of conversation as opposed to I bring up the easiest thing that's for me to to bring up. That gets apologized for, but I'm still unsettled. It's like and then if we part ways, then it's like the the problem almost becomes worse because, like
[00:26:07.00] - Jeff Sherrod
now I can't bring it up again. Yeah. Right. That's important.
[00:26:10.59] - Mitchell Buchanan
We need to be able to speak whatever truth we have, not in a way where it's, like, blocking everyone out and we're moving forward individually. I'm gonna speak my experience that needs reflected back to me on how we're engaging. But and then resolving our conflict and then moving forward together. When we speak entirely what our conflict is, that's healthy. When people, you know, reflect back to us, hey. This is how I understood this. I am sorry. That should be accepted. When we say I forgive you, that should be accepted. It's like, it's those words that we have with each other that we build each other up or tear each other down by those words. Right. And we have to be able to trust each other. So if there's nothing else to say, I I think that was a a helpful dive into Ephesians four. Thanks for listening to, the church the sermon podcast for the community church for g o d.
[00:27:04.70] - Brett Madron
Got it. You got it. Yeah.
[00:27:07.09] - Mitchell Buchanan
Leave a review. We would love to hear any comments you have. Thumbs up, like this if you're on YouTube. But this conversation is based on every time we have someone get up and speak in church, It's not just settled on Sunday. We want the word of God to pour out of us throughout the week and conversations we have all over, our lives. But thanks for joining us. I hope you all have great conversations this week, and we'll see you
[00:27:29.40] - Jeff Sherrod
later.
[00:27:30.50] - Mitchell Buchanan
See you, guys. See you.
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