In this first episode on our series on Education, pastors Gregg Garner, Deb Nava, Jeff Sherrod, and Host Mitchell Buchanan delve into the transformative power of engaging in education with the Lord. Deb Nava highlights the importance of studying and understanding the word of God, using metaphors like farmer, athlete, and soldier to explain the commitment required. The cost of this education involves sacrificing time and not being entangled in civilian affairs. The speakers emphasize the need for education in leadership roles and the importance of being an approved worker for God's word. They discuss the zeal and diligence required to do one's best in studying the Lord's teachings. The podcast concludes with a call to dedication and encouragement to engage in conversations and dig deeper into God's Word.
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[00:00:09.98] - Mitchel Buchanan
Hello, hello, hello. My name is Mitchell Buchanan and you were back with us on the sermon podcast for the Community Church for God . This is a great time. One of my favorite value series we're going through. We're joined by Jeff Shared here, who is fantastic preacher. This man, Jeff Shared is the chief academic officer for the Institute for God . He's a great friend. He is one of the preachers for the Community Church for God , joined by Greg Garner, founding pastor, one of our great friends and just is a fantastic podcast Co host. Yeah, don't I'm not tripping up again. Co host nailed. And we're going through her sermon today. Deb Nava, who is a teacher at the Academy for God . She has been a long time graduate from the institute, someone who has the word and is just a fantastic person to conversate with. So thanks for joining us.
[00:01:11.84] - Deb Nava
All right, I'm happy to be here.
[00:01:14.79] - Mitchel Buchanan
This is going to be a podcast through our series on education. If you didn't know, our church is going through different values that we hold each month. We're having different preachers get up and share from the word of why we hold that value and how it kind of applies to our life. So this is a practice on the podcast, talking through the sermons, making sure that we extend that word of God just out of Sundays into our everyday lives where it can, we can meditate on it. It can impact how we live and how we engage with one another. So Deb, I think went through second Timothy2 . If you want to give some context on your passage, what God was working in your heart, and then kind of your main points you want to leave the the audience with , that'd be great.
[00:02:00.64] - Deb Nava
Yeah, so for some reason I always end up with Paul, which I love him a lot. He's so intense.
[00:02:08.96] - Mitchel Buchanan
For some reason I request I don't know.
[00:02:12.28] - Deb Nava
No, I just always end up with Paul, but he's he's a great friend in study. So yes, with education, he was he's to me, he's like the the pinnacle of like the most educated. You know, he represents this very respected and like highly educated. He like went to like, you know, he was like the Harvard professor basically of, of the Torah. And so to me he's like represents this, this value so well. But this particular passage I I talked through sort of what that translates to once he engages with his education, but it's in the context of knowing the suffering Lord that we serve and how that transformed his zealousness as it was into being full of the same kind of passion, but it was in a different way. And it, and it changed his life and, and the way that he communicated what he learned from encountering Jesus as a suffering Lord and how we as followers of Jesus can also engage our education in the same way and be impacted by it in the same way. We can still be people who are the people that we are, that God gave, gave us the gifts that we have, whether it be somebody who's very zealous and loud or someone who's very demure and mindful, but that the Lord is going to transform who we are through that educational experience and that encounter with Him as we engage His Word.
[00:03:59.80] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah. No, that's great. I think the you gave so many description for Paul on the road to Damascus. It was like literally like stopped in his tracks. Like there's so many like really cool physical elements of his sight, the blinding and then, you know, on his way to one path and then he's reverted on a different way. That is a really cool, I think context from the change in his life. And then I think your text in second Timothy, you focus on verse15 . Do you want to kind of read that and then share maybe more specifically the the where you were going, the playground you were playing with in regards to location for the sermon?
[00:04:37.51] - Deb Nava
Sure. um 2: 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved by Him, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly explaining the word of truth. So before I engaged with this, I actually I was like, Greg, can I can I call you because I need some more, I need some more context to kind of work with this. And so I ended up working through that first part of the chapter to to kind of beef up the way that we like kind of get into this, this particular verse about being a worker, because he does give us these other metaphors. You know, we have like a farmer, we have the person you run the athlete and the soldier, right? And so he gives us these different metaphors to work with that I think help us understand this idea of being a worker for him, because there is this other, there is this context of understanding how there are things that we need to suffer if we're going to participate in education with the Lord. And so I kind of worked with those metaphors and I gave some examples from my own life. And and then I wanted to really, I wanted, I wanted to really kind of drive home like what what it means to be somebody who's not ashamed of what it means to participate in this particular kind of education. Because it's not going to be, it's not going to be glorious. You know, it's not going to be like you're not going to be put on a pedestal necessarily. It's going to, it's going to transform you in a, in a very different kind of way. And that transformation makes us the kind of people who can engage this word of truth. And it's, it's costly, you know, there's a cost to it. And I think I, I leaned into that aspect of it of like the cost and the suffering that comes with engaging this kind of education and knowing what it means to know the Lord. So that was kind of like where I was coming from because I wanted to, to like bounce off like that. What it looks like for an athlete who has to, has to give so much of their time and their, and their, their effort and their, their literal strength to, to, to compete. Like it says like you don't get that crown unless you compete and follow the rules. Like there are things that you are sacrificing to engage in that way. And like the same thing with like the soldier. Like I, I gave that example from my life about how I was dating a Marine at the time. And I had this like really funny parallel of like we are, we are engaging in in a in a type of training to at the same time, but mine was spiritual and his was very physical. And it was, you know, obviously for a different purpose. But it in my eyes at the time, you know, I was like, this is just as this is costing me just as much as you. But it was to me, it was such an eye opening thing that in that way that being committed student of the word and really actually wanting to live it out, it is costly. Like it wasn't like I'm just a student and I want to get my ring by spring kind of thing. You know, it was like I am here to learn the word and that's what I wanted to do and I wanted to do it with all my heart. And I think for anyone who wants to follow Jesus like that, especially the kind of curriculum that we have that's like it is holistic. It is like, it is from like, you know, the moment that you wake up and you have people in your life surrounding you, whether it's in the classroom or at home or at your work when you're eating, you know, it's like all these contexts that you are being held accountable to this thing. And it's really precious and it's, and I don't know, it's just a precious and rare thing that we get to engage in. And I feel like going in like, if you're like, I, I want to learn the word like that. There's like you kind of have to, you kind of have to know like you're, you're about to step into something that's going to cost you. And I love that communication from Paul. Like he, he, he takes it just as seriously as he did when he was like in the temple. You know, it's like now he's in prison and he's saying these things with such deep conviction. And it's impossible to ignore if somebody is in such a position, like in that context, being able to say like writing these things, you know, in prison and having such such depth to that communication of like this education, this word of God, you know, it can't be bound. And it, it'll, it is salvation, you know, for, for you, for the world. And it's such, it's such profound communication. And I think Paul, he's, you know, he's genius at that. That's kind of his thing.
[00:09:47.79] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, I said there, I, I told you before, I think your sermon was great to hear and then like re listen to it is like so many Power Pack statements that I've been offended even more like re watching it. And I think it was the way you're phrasing that of I think feeling the suffering even very real for Paul in the moment of imprisoned. And I think your sermon just like really had a point to sing where it's like this word of God can never be bound, like it is always free. And I think that's an element of our education that you, I think almost regardless of what you do as a person, where you invest yourself, you're saying like athletes or soldiers, like there's different avenues where it, we can all engage in an intensive thing in our lives where it's like, Hey, I want to dedicate myself to this, this craft, this interest, this passion. And on the other side, you will see either benefits or negatives. And I think from even working through this text of like, if you take this call and like you're engaging with the Lord and you, you know, as Paul, like with abandoned go after this education in this walk with Jesus that on the other side, like there is going to be a cost. And I think that's upfront and it's helpful to know. But knowing that through that education you're receiving something that can never be taken from you. It it's eternally beneficial and life giving and like such a like a beacon of that this is where God's heart is, is in this word of God that you're you're striving after. I think that was like like re watching. I was like this kid, like this snippet from the sermon could sing for 30 minutes of like how awesome that part is. So I was really, I was really impacted that by that. I think something like a a question from the context of like the past, you kind of shared where this suffering we're going to encounter, like the cost we have. I I connected that with what you may, you may connect it differently, but the first couple verses where you're going through like civilian affairs or you're, hey, the cost you're going to have is that you're not going to be like the world or like, you know, as a soldier doesn't get entangled in civilian affairs. It Hey, we just can't do the same things normal people do. What would be like pragmatically or practically, what's that cost on the day- to- day? Because I was thinking of examples there. Hey, I volunteered for SLAM and I really gave my time or like I spent, you know, time doing this. But I think on the day- to- day, it can feel tough to even acknowledge or to sit with that intentionality we should have, as Paul did. Paul intentionally entered into moments where I know suffering is going to come. I know there's going to be a cost. Like where do we find that intentional efforts in our day- to- day? Or is there a different way you kind of like thought through that?
[00:12:33.96] - Deb Nava
I mean, I think practically the first thing that comes to mind is time you like, you know, like you're saying like if you're going to be an athlete or soldier, whatever you are investing time and those are, that's time you can't get back. And it is when you give it, it's gone, you know, and it's this valuable resource. And if you use your youth, if you're privileged enough to, like, find a place to learn the word in your youth and give yourself to it, part of that is like, it's time, you know, even as you get older, that gets harder. If you have a family, if you have all kinds of other considerations to make, there is a sacrifice of time. Even thinking about like, you know, I'm, I, I'm a mentor for one of the college students at the institute. And that requires a lot of my time. And it's time I'm willing to give because I, I'm, I'm, so I want this young woman to thrive and I want her to experience what I got to experience with somebody just investing their love and prayers into me. And that that is a sacrifice. You know, it's time away from my family and even, you know, like this morning I had like wake up at5 : 30 to be there for prayer. And, you know, with my own struggles with sleep and things like that, like doing, making that decision is like, OK, like I know I'm going to have to like get up at5 : 30 regardless and go meet them and, and have a morning of prayer with them. But it's going to be amazing because the Lord's going to meet us. And I'm certain of that, you know, And so I think practically time is it's just this thing you can never get back. But when you give it to the Lord, it's like this investment that just like flourishes and grows. But you have to be willing to have the faith to be like, OK, I'm going to. I'm going to miss sleep this morning, but there's going to be fruit on the other side of that sacrifice.
[00:14:29.72] - Gregg Garner
Yeah, good example Deb, because you're demonstrating that this is the work. The work is we build people up. We use the word of God to do it. This is what Paul's trying to tell Timothy's important. He gave him that trajectory of consideration as to how the word of God is not bound because though he's in prison, he's entrusted it and taught Timothy and Timothy's taught other faithful people. We were capable of teaching others so that even though they're trying to shut him up, he's already done taught other people what he knows. So they're they're able to communicate it. And I think what you're demonstrating is that you recognize that there's going to be an element of suffering correlative to doing the work, but the return on that investment is so valuable in a flourishing person that it's even motivating you to in the same way a soldier would be motivated to please their enlisting officer or the farmers motivated to work because they know they're going to get a return on that and that's going to work. Or the athlete wants to win the prize. And so they're willing to put in the work of learning how to accomplish that according to the rules. I think your example embodies all of that. And it's it's really good because that is the work. That's the work. So when you were studying to show ourselves approved as, as a Workman for God, we're studying not just to get the knowledge and to figure out how to teach. We're studying because our, our, our ultimate canvas is, is in cooperation with God to build up the person we are making that person more into the image that they were created in. And it's, it cost you it' cause I, I'm positive, I know you. So I'm positive if that mentee called you in the middle of the night, you're there, you're there regardless of the fact that you're probably awake anyways, but you like it's it's you, you know the pain that's going to cause you into the future. The by sacrificing, even just laying there, but you love them. That's the work. So I think it's really important to know that education is the means. It's not the end. We we're with the the work of education is is to invest into the the child of God who can now mature into the image they've been created to bear. And those of us who are going to labor in that like we find ourselves approved by God When we, like a soldier, enlist and forgo our civilian rights, like an athlete, discipline our bodies so that we can win the prize like the farmer does the toil and the sweat to ensure there's an appropriate harvest. As workers for God, we're also looking at that flourishing human being who is who they are as a result of what we did in serving the Lord. It's, it's, it's more potent than any reward that any athlete or soldier or it's, it's powerful. And I hear that in your example. I thought that was a really good one. It was really good. Time
[00:17:33.48] - Gregg Garner
Time is a commodity so personal. It's our. It's the one that everyone owns. Yeah, right. Yeah.
[00:17:43.27] - Mitchel Buchanan
I can choose to do that or not do that or I don't have the time, but you can truly you can give you when you give it, it costs you, you know you're.
[00:17:55.96] - Gregg Garner
Expensing
[00:17:57.16] - Mitchel Buchanan
You're expensing it cost you something and it is so easy to personally claim or to take to lay stake in of like, hey, this is our family time or this is, you know, I, this is my vacation time, not disturbed by anything or this is whatever it is. And it's like, you know, for, for people who are in ministry that have this, this mentality, like the examples of, you know, the farmer's time is not his own. Like the farmer has to be doing stuff at certain times when the, when it's time to work, you have to like the sun is out. Like I have to get this done before the sun goes down like so.
[00:18:33.55] - Jeff Sherrod
Just the race is coming regardless.
[00:18:35.35] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, like it it happens. And then once the in the game, I can't say like, oh, I'm in a bad mood, I don't want to play. It's like the game is happening, like you have to play like it is not your time. So I think that is like a really costly thing that it can be easy for us to personally excuse a way of like, well, I'm not giving my time because I need to do this. And I think when we are in in that discussion of have this is my personal time. Not that you can never have your own time, but I think when it becomes, I think an overarching but need, you have to like kind of claim that is that we've lost maybe some of this edge where Paul is driving. And like, hey, like if you're in this vocational ministry where you're looking to serve and love others, that you need to be giving of yourself, where it'll cost you everything if, if required.
[00:19:30.03] - Gregg Garner
It's interesting that Paul would say you could alleviate your shame by being this approved worker who is capable of teaching the word of God. It's it's the implications. Interesting, right? Like that people who lack the capacity to be able to use the word of God to build people up and to recognize that the investment in the Kingdom is the development of a human being, that they there should be some correlative shame. But I don't know, do people actually feel ashamed when they don't? Or are they just going, well, that's, that's Jeff's gift. That's not my gift. My, my I give gifts. I don't, I don't know, you know what I mean? Like it's, it's his context is so high. Yeah, right. Like for him now. And, and he could also be thinking about shame in, in their1 st century honor shame cultural context, which I would still have to work through to make sense of. Like does does he feel like if you're going to be associated with the work of God and you are not studied up and, and ready to divide the word in effective manner for others, then then you should sense some shame. Like that becomes a big challenge. Yeah, 'cause I've been, I've, I've visited churches that was kind of like for 10 years. All I did it like right, Just traveling churches playing music, preaching, leading worship. And I can't tell you how many people on that church staff did not know the word of God. They didn't and they didn't even feel it was their responsibility. They had no shame on it. They would literally, I, I knew pastors who would say, yeah, I'm a senior pastor here, but but you know, I leave the teaching to the teaching pastor and the word of God's been challenging for me. I went and got my end if but you know, I'm more, I'm more visit people. It's been a long time. I'm more visit people at the hospital and do weddings and things like that and and just pray for people, you know, but Paul saying here, if you want to be a, a worker for the Kingdom that's actually approved by God, you need to be the kind of person who's capable of teaching the word. And if not, you should be ashamed of yourself. It it just comes off a little different when you say it like that. But I wonder if people feel that because when I read it, I do. I'm like, that's kind of.
[00:21:50.40] - Mitchel Buchanan
I wonder and like thinking through it, maybe it's just like really a homiletical or like really, really preachy and not yeah, maybe it's just really preachy but rightly explaining the word of truth. Is there an element where it's a, it's a spectrum, how much I know of the word versus you versus someone else? So it's like, it's not an expectation. Like you're saying that's Jeff's gift, which he truly is gifted in teaching the word. And I, I don't have it to the mastery that Jeff does, but that I'm not ashamed if I'm able to do it to the best, like, you know, to the best I can, right? Like but.
[00:22:20.72] - Gregg Garner
Then you have the qualifying adjective rightly.
[00:22:24.64] - Mitchel Buchanan
Well, I think does.
[00:22:25.96] - Gregg Garner
So what if you do it not rightly?
[00:22:27.92] - Mitchel Buchanan
right, my question was even if I am take I'm approaching this with a seriousness that an athlete would training for a race and if I even if I only have a few things that I could.
[00:22:39.16] - Gregg Garner
You'll be a shame later.
[00:22:40.40] - Mitchel Buchanan
If I can do it rightly though
[00:22:41.27] - Gregg Garner
If you do it rightly, I mean, that's, that's, that's what you're supposed to do, right? So there's no problem. But I thought you were trying to say I've done all the study, I've taken it serious and I'm still doing it wrong. That
[00:22:53.64] - Gregg Garner
That happens.
[00:22:56.96] - Mitchel Buchanan
I don't have the breadth of like, hey, I can't just like X, you know, on any passage be like, oh, let me give you the context here. Like I only have certain things that I could right? Is the is this saying rightly explaining the truth? I.
[00:23:11.03] - Gregg Garner
Think Paul's telling Timothy. That's why you need to study. There's a lot of problems out there and there's a lot of things like go back to acts when the, the, the 12 decide we, we are getting bogged down by the operations of organizations, specifically having to wait tables and, and, and we need to choose people who are, are filled with the spirit and faithful to serve in this capacity' cause we need to, we need to study. Yeah, I know that there's some people who have taken that text and I don't know the the I think there's a misconception as how to interpret it. And they think that, oh, this is the 12 we're trying to become armchair theologians. And they were making the other guys do all the hard work. And I don't, I don't think that was the case at all. I think they were sobered into the reality that they were people were laying things at their feet. They're responsible for this community sustainability and their health. And they're like, we don't know how to answer a lot of the questions that are emerging because we don't know enough of the word of God. So I think institutions, what they try to do, like for example, the Mennonites, I don't know if this is the case anymore. You know, institutions change certain rules. But this sect of Mennonites, when I was in college, one of my professors, she she had her PhD and she told me that in their sect of mennitism, I don't know, in order to be a teacher or a pastor at the church, you had to have a terminal degree in biblical says or theology. Now she didn't go on to further explain why. I can now see why you want to have those kinds of checks in there, because you don't want a person shoot from the hip, offering solutions for a community with real problems. You want to know that they've done their work to study. Yeah. So that they they. God, can. You know, an approval is a stamp, right? It's like saying this is this is ready for the production line, right? I've been on the line before, I've been stamping. So I, I, I think that Paul's trying to say like, if you want to be a person who, who, not ashamed because God's got his approval on you and has put you out there, you're going to have to do the work of study. And the goal is to rightly divide the word. So that's why for me, like even with our own community, I want to see people going as far as they can in education. I know our master's programs in biblical leadership and mythological entrepreneurialism. Both of these have even become organizational prerequisites for teaching the OR, or leading programs or teams or yeah, the delegation missions even that we're doing the. And it's not because it's an inserted formality that just helps us to, I guess, complicate our processes or appear more legitimate. It's a safeguard to say, hey, if you're going to be in a position to lead A- Team and make decisions that affect people's real lives, we're going to hope you went through this curriculum that were aware of and you studied because now you should have the tools to compete for the crown. Because if you don't know the rules, you can't, right? And you shouldn't be. If you're going to do this kind of work, you're no longer concerned with your personal interests. You're concerned with it pleasing the enlisting officer, which which isn't even pleasing the president or pleasing the commander in chief. It's the enlisting officer. So Paul in this case is like, they need to be concerned with what you want them to learn Timothy or what I want you to learn Timothy. And then the, the, the farmer, like what the work you put into it's the work you get out of it. Like the reason why Jeff could say earlier that he started with education coming right out of college is because as a student he was serious and put the work in. And so he, he, he got the opportunity early on, but like, it's like a farmer who understands the crop that I receive is going to be a result of the work I put in beforehand. So these metaphors are very and analogies are very important for Paul's communication here. So I, I don't think it's I, I get what you're saying. Like everybody has a different portion. Yeah. That they that they by faith, by measure of faith or executing within the context of giftness. And I think God's grace is readily available for all of us. And when we fall short of that, but I think that the crux of the communication is you got to study.
[00:27:49.55] - Mitchel Buchanan
Right. Well, I mean, the the examples, it's not like an athlete who's going to finish 10 th in the race, you know, it's like. We're talking about the prize, we're talking about competing at a high level.
[00:28:02.35] - Jeff Sherrod
I've always imagined they're like, not according to the rules, like some guy just cutting across infield and breaking the line, you know, like did like the. And then you know, he would. There would be some shame on the other side of that was like, dude, like everyone saw you cheat. Yeah.
[00:28:17.07] - Mitchel Buchanan
Grace has to be in the stroller Derby
[00:28:20.44] - Jeff Sherrod
Derby wow, she's cheating. So I think that's like.
[00:28:25.24] - Gregg Garner
12 years ago, literally 12 years ago
[00:28:28.24] - Mitchel Buchanan
i'm not forgetting that, yeah.
[00:28:31.24] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah, but for biblical, you know, for Paul's thing too, it's like, you know, there's there is a seriousness. I think that's why I like what you're saying to Deb like that. He doesn't just say, and this is some side gig that you might have the kind of dedication sacrifice that has to happen for the other three metaphors that we're using. This is that it's a similar kind of dedication metaphor that has to have dedication, sacrifice that has to happen for people that are going to be working for Christ.
[00:28:57.48] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, I think it with that verse 15 , something that you said that I thought was great and I just wanted to maybe hear some more of your thoughts. You had the do your best as the qualifier to start 215 do your best to present yourself to God as want to prove by Him. So you highlighted that there's this gentle assurance but also a firmness to it, which I think was a great way to describe. I think you know how that sets it up and thinking through, you know, our our accountability groups for church, which you know, this hopefully aids in that is the do your best. I kind of brought up or, or trigger to me where we've been around each other long enough. Or if you're coming to church, you're like, we've seen, you know, been on trips together, like seeing great times of worship and, and other times you're going through like a harder patch. Like I've seen a lot of people's bests, like, Hey, I've seen it when you're at your peak and you're awesome and also seen them at less than that, where the push, you know, and that furnace you talked about is saying, hey, really got to try to do your best. How do you think that works out? Where in a in a context of accountability, we're trying to bring people to that of in a practical way. I don't think anyone wants to always be OK. I'm going to have like the uncomfortable hard conversation, like you're not living up to the standard in Christ. Like that's a weighty thing that you wouldn't just pull out all the time. And I think at least the way Paul is doing this with Timothy is doing it where there's a gentle assurance that like, I believe you and I'm I'm trusting this happening, but it's also not lessening that bar of like, it needs to be your best. How do you see that kind of like us capturing that sentiment and even encouraging each other or you know, in our accountability group somewhere where they there is needed accountability in US practicing, I think this type of sentiment Paul's giving.
[00:30:46.00] - Deb Nava
Yeah. I think part of where I was coming from with us too was like the do do your best. Like he is telling them like this is what is expected of you is your best. But I think there's also room for considering people's personal resources at the time. Like, are you doing your best with what you have right now or are you still trying to? Are you doing your yeah, are you doing your best with with what resources you have right now, whether it's your health or time or whatever season of life you're in? Obviously, like, you know, a freshly postpartum mom probably isn't going to be like, you know, leading groups or whatever. Like there there needs to be that consideration, but also holding them to that accountability of like, are you are you still meeting with the Lord in prayer? Are you still meeting with other people? You know, are you still having, you know, times with the Lord? Are you, you know, like, because I think there there does need to be that consideration for whatever season of life people are in. But yeah, we don't want to lessen the bar at all. But I think there is a way to check in on people to ask like, hey, I've noticed, you know, this kind of thing. I think it is hard. I'm definitely not the kind of personality that's going to be very like abrupt or direct about it. I'm very much like, hey.
[00:32:13.11] - Mitchel Buchanan
And this is a teacher to student relationship. I think of Paula Timothy, which is probably something to hold of like you don't want to just charge either peers or someone who's definitely older than you into accountability of like, hey, are you really doing your best? Like, I think they could go off the rails pretty quick. So but I I think there there is an element here where they're not just, you know, teacher to student, but Co laborers. That's how like policies Timothy. So I think there could be a lot of like peer elements in this where you're wanting to, you're just really provoking a person. Like I know what you're capable of, like provoking them. Like I know you know, the walk you've had with the Lord. It's like, where is that in this aspect? I think that could be I'm just trying to.
[00:32:53.72] - Gregg Garner
Think of that. It's also hard to do it we're doing right now because we're looking at an English translation and the the Greek term is spudazzo, and most of the time in Paul it's not even translated. Do your best. NRSV translates it. Do your best in other verses it's translated as make every effort, but almost always in the the1 st century Hellenistic writings, which is where it was commonly found they it would be translated as zealousness or with haste or with a sense of urgency. Apply yourself, which is why the classical King James became steady to show yourself. So there there is a, a, a real urgency attached to the communication. And then the the zeal element is there. I think we know that Paul apostle considered his zealousness a part of his Pharisaical experience. He is more zealous than his peers as a Pharisee. So he he's, he's you. You can take the Pauline corpus, figure out how he uses words in there and and that's part of a translation philosophy. So then say he probably means this, but we're all, we're all kind of guessing. I think do your best. You guys have done a good job at trying to make sense of that. But I don't know. I don't know if anybody looked at the other versions of the Bible. I think NRSV might be the only one to translate it. Do your best. I'm not sure, but I just know that the term itself has to do with the the kind of zeal and diligence that somebody applies, which gives room for us to talk about making those concerted efforts so that you can become that approve work. And so then the context implies that the concerted effort or the best effort is with respect to studying Lord of God. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not sure we need to make too much out of the the subjective element of what best means. I think it's just trying to highlight that, that we are with zealous energy, trying to pursue knowing that word in such a way that we can rightly divide it before people. Yeah. Does it make sense?
[00:35:08.92] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, I think I'm with you
[00:35:09.92] - Gregg Garner
It's going to be a primary issue for most people reading the Bibles that we're all reading in our language and it wasn't written in that language and we're now dependent on a translation. So whenever we we go get on a word, or in this case, one word is translated into a phrase, we we got to, we got to make sure that it still always fits in context. So even if we're to use do your best, do your best is in the context of aiming towards being an approved worker, which is why I brought up one of the ways we quantify that sometimes or qualify that, sorry, is, is by highlighting someone's degree. And we're like, they got that degree. That was their effort. That was their diligence. They went that far out of zealousness to, to demonstrate a best effort. So I, I, I think, I think like when, when like imagine coaching some kids, right? And one of them was like, like, I did my best to run that lap, but they were terrible at running the lap. Like their best was just a reflection of how out of shape they were. It wasn't actually what we want. So the aim of do your best can't be so subjective that it doesn't create the standard of an approved worker.
[00:36:33.59] - Mitchel Buchanan
For sure.
[00:36:34.19] - Gregg Garner
So, right, right. So if I'm going to present myself and, and, and with my best foot forward with the kind of zealousness to like play for a professional team, I, I won't get approved for the team unless I am demonstrative of that level. So I, I think if anything with subjectivity comes with the varying communities. So like you have some communities that like the, the, the expectation may not have as, as rigorous approval standards for who should be in front of them. I, I think that's sometimes what happens to people who go to our college, right? They go learn the Bible. They can barely go back to their old churches because they're like, wow, the standard was low. The standard was low at that place. So they, they want to see something change. So I I, I think. Anyways that's my contribution.
[00:37:26.71] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah. No, I think it's, it's helpful to to always hold the approved worker where we can never slack in the, you know, the expectation to like really have this word of God. And you know, Paul is never, you know, telling Timothy what you have is good enough. Now you got to go. It's like, no, no, like I'm teaching you. He's diligent and doing so because it needs that attention, that seriousness and that.
[00:37:53.80] - Gregg Garner
You, you're building human lives, You know, that's, that's the temple that we're we're building. And so it's a very serious endeavour for sure. Like I wouldn't want someone drafting up my home or designing the blueprints for our Civic Center. Who, who, Who doesn't have the capacity to do so and hasn't been approved by the state.
[00:38:15.28] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, and then it's like, oh, but I did my best, I tried real hard.
[00:38:17.40] - Gregg Garner
It collapsed during the hurricane and lots of people were hurt. Like, that'd be our fault for letting that person give us the plans. And that's acting according to it, right? But it's hard to, it's hard to qualify when it comes.
[00:38:30.76] - Jeff Sherrod
To say something about the standard, like the way that he's communicating this is stringent.
[00:38:37.71] - Gregg Garner
Going to have to apply yourself.
[00:38:39.11] - Jeff Sherrod
Yes. Demonstrate that eagerness and zealousness to to be able to get to the level.
[00:38:42.11] - Gregg Garner
Get to the level. and I think zeal is a good consideration in light of the analogies too.
[00:38:46.67] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah. Do you want to say anything else? I think this has been a. It's such a rich text that has an angle at like what we're doing as a church where we're not, like I said, Lessing the bar or it's not just like, Hey, come as you are and we are going to accept such a low standard. Like, hey, everyone, please like comment. There's no expectation that you have to attained before you're here. But like once you're here, there should be like a real aim, a real zeal, like, hey, we're pursuing the Lord. You know, it's like, so I really appreciate this context in our church community where we want all of us have fallen short. None of us are perfect. But like there should be that mentality, that switch where it's like, hey, we're not here to mess around. We're not here just to like come to enjoy something for a Sunday. Like we're here to really engage the world where others can benefit from it and see this city on a hill, this light to the nations. And it's transformative if we can tackle it with that like intensity.
[00:39:46.36] - Deb Nava
Yeah, yeah. And I, I love that idea of thinking about we are, we are carrying on in the same, the same narrative. Like we want to be part of God's story. And it's going to require that level, that expectation of, of zeal and commitment and dedication and, and, you know, heart, mind, soul, strength. You know, it's like, yeah, he's calling us into that, and that's great.
[00:40:12.67] - Mitchel Buchanan
Well, awesome. Thanks again for joining us in our discussion on education and Paul's example. So fruitful. Pray that this next week, month, year, you're taking the time, I think, to have these conversations with friends, taking the time to dig into God's Word and that we can all find that we can be those approved workers striving for that because we want to be able to represent the Lord wherever we're at. And so I pray that that can be done. Thanks for joining us, Like subscribe, share with people. We'd love to see you back again for another podcast, but until then, have a good one.
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