In this first episode on our series on Education, pastors discuss the importance of biblical education and the responsibility of priests to distinguish between holy and common practices. They emphasize the need for continuous learning and discernment between good and evil, as well as the challenges in applying biblical principles to various aspects of life. The speakers highlight the role of community support and the value of learning together in the education process. They also discuss the significance of teaching statutes as a group and the impact of learning God's word on behavior and values. Overall, the video emphasizes the communal nature of biblical education and the importance of applying scripture in daily life.
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[00:00:09.90] - Mitchel Buchanan
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to the sermon podcast for the Community Church for God . This is going to be an awesome episode and we're pumped that you are joining us for today. We have Greg Garner back who is founding pastor, incredible teacher of the word, always benefit from hearing his thoughts and perspectives and being able to teach more and more. And we're with two people who gave sermons over this last month for our value series on education. So we have Deb Nava with us who is Institute Graduate Academy for God teacher. She does editing. She is in the intellectual sphere basically all, all day, every day. And then we're with Jeff Shared as well, who is one of our preachers and he is instructor at the institute. More than that, but I'm losing. My words do that.
[00:01:02.92] - Gregg Garner
Chief Academic Officer.
[00:01:04.23] - Mitchel Buchanan
He does instruct. He also is the chief academic officer. And I think I make up for my mistake if I say I've already messed up, right? OK, cool.
[00:01:14.64] - Gregg Garner
Are Mitchell Buchanan.
[00:01:15.71] - Mitchel Buchanan
Oh, and yeah, I am Mitchell Buchanan. I host this podcast. I'm an integrated pastor with the Community Church for Judy. If I haven't talked to you, I'd love to do that, but this is a great time, I think just to talk through sermons, not just to hear a recap, but like we want to make sure that the sermon breaks forth into ways that we can discuss it, apply it in our everyday lives and like have real fruit and growth on the other side. So Jeff, I think this podcast for your sermon were your text, I believe was Leviticus10 : 10 and11 :00, which this could be one of the few podcasts you're going to look up on YouTube for Leviticus 1010 through11 . I feel like we're we're hitting some sweet.
[00:01:53.23] - Jeff Sherrod
Grounded a good Old Testament passage.
[00:01:56.23] - Mitchel Buchanan
But if you want to kind of give what your main thoughts were on the text and maybe what brought that about and anything else you want to share a leading up to your sermon, we can kind of chat from there.
[00:02:06.00] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah, so Brandon Galford his teaching pastor, said this is the theme and this is the passage. So that's kind of what started it. But yeah, I was, I was pumped to to do it. I've been in education for like most of my adult, really all of my adult life. Yeah, it's my first job, like real job out of college was the institute. So I've been doing that for a long time. So yeah, I've, I've like people. I've even talked to my wife about it and let people pass. Like you still feel the same. Was like, I don't feel the same. I feel more passionate about biblical education than I ever have. Like I just, I think you get enough years, you're like, and you see it work enough and enough people's lives and like in in such powerful ways that, yeah, I'm real passionate about. So I was pumped to talk about the value of education and encourage people. Yeah. So Leviticus 1010 through 11 is passage that is aimed at the responsibility of the priest. And So what I was trying to hit at was that there is some things that we're trying to and get AT and I try to start with some misconceptions I thought that maybe exist about biblical education and go through those. And then in Leviticus 10:10 - 11:11. I'll just I can read here. It's you distinguish between the holy and the common between the clean and the unclean and you're to teach the people of Israelites of Israel the statues that the Lord has spoken to them through Moses. So yeah, we talked about a couple of those things, like what is the process of making distinct distinguishing things and how do we get people to do that specifically between like what's holy and what's common and and then also just the responsibility to teach. So I also try to talk about that what is the kind of the nature of biblical education, not just to like past head knowledge, although that's part of it, but to really grow people closer to the Lord.
[00:03:50.91] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, yeah, no, it was great. And I think even just sitting with maybe phrases to get thrown around quite a bit, like whole, you know, holiness is has as far as my Christian, I've always been a Christian buzzword of just, you know, you hear it almost every Sunday in some form or fashion. And I think having the time to sit with it and really consider, you know, I think something you drew out was that it's not, hey, you have to stay away from this. It's not just, you know, a directive to not do certain activities or all. It's also not an opposite of the world. Like, hey, what's the world doing? Like we're going to do opposite that. It's a connection with God's presence. And, you know, mimicking that, finding that in your walk, finding that in how we're living out our lives, where we're going to be different from the world because we're living for God, that we're connected with God.
[00:04:38.95] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. So holiness being set apart for God, for God special purposes. And and I think that yeah, it does. And say, you know, to distinguish between what's holy and what's evil.
[00:04:49.48] - Mitchel Buchanan
Right.
[00:04:50.24] - Jeff Sherrod
Maybe easier, but it says you know what's common. So that and I think that there seems to be a pull really throughout the whole Bible, right where there's this broad path towards commonness and then.
[00:05:00.95] - Gregg Garner
And you're pointing that out because you're you're trying to highlight that something common doesn't have to be evil.
[00:05:10.80] - Jeff Sherrod
Right.
[00:05:11.39] - Gregg Garner
Right? You're saying this is not a polarization of good and evil. We're making distinction between things that could be commonly accepted, yet not be reaching that level of holiness that we're expected to.
[00:05:28.51] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. And it's not, it's not setting us apart for God's purposes just by engaging in a common behavior that might be out there. But then someone might look at it and there's probably a million examples we could think of but...
[00:05:39.48] - Gregg Garner
And this is why the discernment process becomes important, right? Because it's much easier to discern, like the difference between good and evil. Yeah, that'd be much easier to that's.
[00:05:48.75] - Jeff Sherrod
All like the kid books, right? It's like heroes and villains
[00:05:51.60] - Gregg Garner
yeah, yeah, yeah. Like if I stab you and you die.
[00:05:56.16] - Mitchel Buchanan
Super evil guys.
[00:05:57.00] - Gregg Garner
Evil, right? But. But if I contaminate the water nearby where you live and 30 years later you get cancer, that's tough to discern. Yeah, That's hard. Yeah. Even though I think we can maybe say there's some evil and sinisterness to all of that. It it it's a pretty common practice for factories to offload their pollution.
[00:06:19.31] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. And in the name of We created jobs for 30 years.
[00:06:22.27] - Gregg Garner
And we we complied with all the law expectations, etc,.
[00:06:27.24] - Gregg Garner
yeah. Yeah. So it it's the discerning process or the distinguishment process that you noted becomes critical. Yeah, because you're not dealing with polarized, exaggerated, the, you know, black and white. You're you're looking at the common.
[00:06:44.07] - Jeff Sherrod
And to me, that's like the Super fun thing about biblical education is that and I, I, I don't think I really learned this from you like that you can look at all aspects of life, like the, the entirety of it and you can say, what does God's word say about this? And you don't regulate religious instruction just to the religious parts of life, which is, you know, that was kind of like.
[00:07:07.43] - Gregg Garner
Which is common.
[00:07:08.04] - Jeff Sherrod
Common. Yeah, that's common. Yeah, exactly. So that's super fun. You know, I'm like, I think that it's, it's it's awesome to teach people the Bible, you know, and to tell them the historicity and the language. I love doing all that, but it's challenging when you're like, all right, what does this look like them for you? How does that actually affect your practice? You know, sometimes people like, you know, it's a, it's a whole skill as well to distinguish.
[00:07:30.95] - Gregg Garner
I think growing up, perhaps this is your guys experience as well. Maybe it was the alliteration that made it easy, but people would say it's not about religion, it's about a relationship, right. And so like the concept of relationship became the buzzword for how it was. We explained our position before God it so that our faith permeated all aspects of life. I, I, I, I think that's kind of what we were trying to do, but I, I don't think it's as fitting as what you're trying to communicate right now that the word of God, we need educated in it because it's applicable to absolutely everything that the human being encounters right throughout the course of their life. And in that case, as we move through life, we do have to have some capacity to make distinction between what it is that God wants versus what it is that God's tolerated or accepted or allowed to exist. And I think that that distinction there is, is definitely goes deeper than just like it's not about religion, it's about a relationship. It's it's not about religion, it's about life. It's about how we are choosing to apply yeah, everybody has their their basic knowledge base that that gives them their set of internal rules as to say this is acceptable or this isn't something that I I think is not good. Whatever we're, we're saying according to this text that the the role of the priesthood and and the process of educating people in the word of God is to give them that criteria by which now they can look at the world and make distinction.
[00:09:21.60] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah, Yeah. I think that's it.
[00:09:29.63] - Mitchel Buchanan
That was fun. I don't know if I've done it that long.
[00:09:32.72] - Gregg Garner
It was the pensive pause . More alliteration.
[00:09:35.87] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, dude, you're all on it. It's the alliteration pod that we're doing here because I think something that you had mentioned or just a note which is on this, but I think we can nuance a little better to kind of push our discussion for it was that this seems being wholly in common. This is not necessarily something that is automatic. While we are talking about holiness, it is never automatic. I think you went from there to talk about that. There is somewhat of a pause where if we are just doing what's common, it's almost call and response, like you're just responding with what is expected from you in society or what you're accustomed to responding with. But to really have that distinguishment and differentiation, it requires, I think maybe not a slowness, but it does require that connectivity with God in that relationship to figure out, hey, is, is this a good practice or not? And it kind of gives you that necessary step to pause before just responding. Now I think there is there is a like, if I'm in the spirit, if I'm like have an attitude of prayer and I feel very connected with the Lord. I think you it's not as if everything has to wait. I think that would also be like an incorrect stance of hey, I just need to pray about that. I need to wait longer to say what's going on. I think there's definitely something to be said for being connected to the Lord and taking those spiritual disciplines of consistently praying, consistently being in the word where you can have that that relationship and you can respond. But I think in elements of the discernment requires moment requires some moments from you to intentionally unplug from what you're experiencing in the world as a human being and to connect with God.
[00:11:15.79] - Gregg Garner
I think maybe defining some terms will be helpful. Like sure, to define common. Common in the context of Leviticus has to do with their accepted cultural practice, much of which came from their time in Egypt. So in many ways, this process of education was going to get them to examine what was previously unexamined. And for most of us, the culture we come up with is unexamined. It's just our practice. And the practice itself became the way in which we developed our palette for this is right, this is wrong. So when I, I, I hear you talk about that pause that someone has to take, that pause is, is to examine now the unexamined. But the criteria by which you're applying the examination is God's word, which is holy. So now you have a holiness grid or filter that's put on to the information that you're taking in. But what we're saying here in distinguishing between the common and the holy is we're saying, OK, that means you even need to look on your own processes. So take for example, there. You're like, yeah, you got to pause. But I know also in Christian culture, there's that one thing where someone asks you, hey, Deb, do you think that you can volunteer and help out with this thing? And then Deb's like, let me pray about it. And we're like, yeah, pray about it. Even though she might want to say no, I don't want to or say I'd love to.
[00:12:37.55] - Jeff Sherrod
It's just the most Christian way of turning someone down yeah
[00:12:39.39] - Gregg Garner
Christian way. So isn't that now common?
[00:12:41.79] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah, I think that's super common
[00:12:42.75] - Gregg Garner
So even though it's religious and it's Christian, it might be common because we know that if we're going to apply a holiness criteria, there is the let your yes be yes or nobody know that with respect to commitments and you do want to weigh in on that. But if you're passionate about it and you know it, like are you less of a model Christian if you just go, I'd love to, I'd love to do it. That'd be awesome because I've had people tell this to me and go, whoa, whoa, wait a second. You can pray about it and think about it. And I'm like, oh, OK. And I'm thinking the moment. I don't think that's I don't think it's going to change, should it? Do you not want me to do it? Like it feels weird in that moment. But I do think that in there is an exercise of the common that is unexamined in that moment and people don't know how to even talk about it. We don't even have the vocabulary. And my hope is always through our education processes, we're giving people the the nomenclature that allows them to discuss things that are often undiscussable. So, for example, on the situation like that, if a person's listened to the sermon or this podcast and and that happens, they now have a referential point where they can go. This is one of those moments where we're just doing the Christian thing. Hey, let me, let me just do it. I said yes, and I know that my obligation is now to fulfill that. Yes, let me do it.
[00:13:59.39] - Jeff Sherrod
Right. And I don't think that Nestle has to have a pause like you're not, you're not pausing when you say yes in that situation. And I think that this is part of what biblical maturation can look like. You, you, you develop virtue in in, in some areas where you're like, you've practiced, you've thought through a biblical response, you see patterns of it and you can respond quickly even.
[00:14:20.20] - Gregg Garner
Yeah. So the less experience you have with application of God's Word and making distinction between the common and holy, the more of a pause you're likely to need to have just to evaluate. Otherwise you're going to be acting in automations, right? Yeah. But if the more you practice it and the more it's developed into a virtue, you, you know how you want to serve.
[00:14:37.72] - Jeff Sherrod
The right, yeah, yeah, I do think that the pause is is helpful as people are making consideration. It just, it takes time. And I think that can happen through that. The main criteria that we at least get in this passage is through instruction in God's Word. And you're just at least considering what does this look like and what is God's word say about it? Like I talked to someone, it was a few weeks ago, but they were talking to an employee kind of, and they're like, I'm going to say this. Do you think that this passage applies to the conversation? And I thought I did. And I was like, I was so appreciated that the person like even called to wonder, like I'm going to use this passage. I want to make sure I'm using it right. I was like, man, that's a, that's a pause. I want to they're not just going to like go forward with this interaction the way that they might culturally do it, but they're like really considered how God's word would inform that discussion that they were going to have with employee that could have just been like very normal HR. So see, I thought, I think that that it, it does take time for us to do that. And I think that we don't want to get I don't know, I'm trying. Maybe I shouldn't, I don't want, I think it could be offensive. Maybe that's where I'm I'm wearing someone, not not.
[00:15:44.67] - Gregg Garner
What you're about to say is going to be.
[00:15:45.96] - Jeff Sherrod
Offensive. No, where there is like, I don't think what I'm going to say is going to be offensive.
[00:15:50.36] - Gregg Garner
Just say it.
[00:15:51.27] - Jeff Sherrod
Just that the practice of pushing people to to say how does this align with scripture?
[00:15:59.39] - Gregg Garner
I was saying the current climate of culture, it is offensive. Yeah, I think you're right.
[00:16:03.72] - Jeff Sherrod
Because there do you think that there can be even in a Christian community, a conception of like we're all holy And then so suddenly anything that is done might have like, well, you know, I learned that's what I was trying to say too. It's like there might be a conception is like I learned the Bible at one time. Therefore all just actions are justified moving forward. I'm not an evil person, I'm not bad, not hurting anyone. And that's different than what this passage is getting at, which is like that examines life that says like, how can we please the Lord in a conscious way? And I.
[00:16:40.20] - Mitchel Buchanan
Think you you highlighted that the continuousness of education and what we're talking about that discernment between holy and common that it's not a moment in time. I did my studies and now I'm you know, that is free my mind where everything forward is going to be, you know, receiving that properly. It's like we I think you said the word of God doesn't change, but we change. So I think with that lens of like, if we're all alive, human beings are experiences shape us, our frustrations in our state of life or our joys in the state of life reframes our how we receive that word of God and how we speak it, how it, you know, lives in us. So I think that continuousness of hey, it we should have the challenge that as a, you know, a church body that we do our best to be unified in how we live our lives. You know, we do a lot together that like that shouldn't be a an off putting challenge for somebody to be like, hey, where does it does this? Are you, is this lining up with scripture or like, Hey, where do you find God in this activity? I mean, I've had it put to me about like watching sports where I felt like maybe I'm doing that too much. And then Brandon's like my wife, Hey, is this like overboard? And I'm like, if I were in Knoxville, I'd be watching way more sports. And it's like, well, that's not even a good. This isn't a good conversation, but being open in so many, you know, aspects of our lives, like, Hey, like, you know, re examine or see where you're at because it's the word of God is that corrective standard that doesn't change. Like where are the?
[00:18:08.59] - Gregg Garner
People, I think you're making good, good points here, Mitch, because it's just really true that there is a potential misconception to think that because you learn the Bible and undergrad, you mastered it. Yeah. And now you now you have all the tools of discerning between common and holy, unclean and clean, which is ignoring the reality that we do change in our circumstances change. I I'm often encouraging people that part of the reason why we're lifetime learners is not just because we've decided this is the value we're going to follow through, but because every new season of life presents all these new challenges that need us to revisit those same texts. And you see them in a totally different light at that different stage in life, even even the circumstances. It doesn't even have to be the decade you're in, but the circumstances that have been presented during that time period. It you, you bring that to your reading of the text and and your reading of the text and forms it in, in ways we hope that will manifest holiness. The other thing I wanted to say about what you were communicating, which which again I thought was great, was that while it is true that it should be really easy for people to challenge one another with the concept of holiness, what is challenging is to know or that we should know that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Which is a really great verse, not to say that means everybody's terrible, but to alleviate anybody of thinking that anyone's better than anyone else because gosh, I think that's a great starting point. Like for for just because I teach the Bible and just because I may have some maturation with respect to my ability to use Scripture in appropriation does not mean I'm any better than anybody else. I still have blind spots and faults and I vacillate and I could be in a one of those down amplitudes right now and I'm just putting on a. Pretty face for the podcast, you know, but we're, we've also been fallen short of glory God. So I, I think it, it, it changes its tone when we remind ourselves that the people around us pushing us towards holiness are, are trying to get us to the place where we experience the, the, the most out of life, especially when it comes to health and Wellness. Because this, the, the paralleled terms with holy and common are unclean and clean. And within the context of the cleanliness considerations of 11 through 15 of Leviticus, you get well- being and health as an emerging theme. And for me, like today, you and I were in a tech stream that I thought was very helpful for me. It it, it exposed in me some areas where I need to grow and find some healing and it was met with love and kindness by the various parties that were speaking towards it. It it hurt because there's a painful element to having certain things brought up. What happened was I had read into a communication and expressed my interpretation of the reading, but it ultimately revealed my own hurts. And then it got reflected back to me and I was like, Yep, that's.
[00:21:41.03] - Mitchel Buchanan
That's.
[00:21:41.64] - Gregg Garner
That's legitimate. That's that's real. Sorry, guys, but you don't know your hurts till you're safe enough in a community to believe. And people are saying that like I love you, Greg, this is this is this 100 % . Everybody in here is is rooting for you. Whatever, you know, I'm paraphrasing, but that was that was something I want everyone to experience. I want everyone to know that we're not using the word of God to make each other feel like we're just constant failure, right? You know, we're using the word of God because we believe that if by the grace of God, we could access that direction and that light, that life could be a little better. Yeah. And, and it just feels better when, when you are covered by that guarantee that God himself backs this word. So I, I wanted to say that because I've, I've been in church communities where the word of God, especially when someone knows how to use it, is almost used like a weapon. And they'll even say it's like a sword and, and like everybody gets cut down by it. I would never want anyone in our ministry, in our community to believe that we use the word of God to just humble people. Because I, I've had people tell me, are you just trying to like cut me down? I'm like, no trying to build you up, but it can feel like a cut down if you don't have the right mindset. So this word is helping the word of God is not only helping us to discern between common and holy, but also clean and unclean. I obviously, especially if you're thinking about these guys who are basically living in the projects of Egypt, right? They, they, they, they skin diseases. We're all over the place. The biblical term for skin disease, and I'm bringing this up because 11 through 15 has to do with leprosy. That's the term you'll translate. But the Hebrew term does not mean leprosy. It it just means a skin and a disease of some sort. And gosh, the epidermis is the largest organ on the human body. So there's a plethora of diseases is a variety, right? So when we.
[00:23:45.96] - Mitchel Buchanan
Take over here.
[00:23:47.88] - Gregg Garner
I mean, I think all all of us in here recently have something, you know, I was.
[00:23:51.51] - Mitchel Buchanan
Wondering like do fist bumps under the?
[00:23:52.88] - Gregg Garner
Table like, yeah, but but I think it's it's a valuable to to make that consideration because then it's like it wasn't just the lepers who were being evaluated. Yeah, everybody is being evaluated because the goal was to get people clean to get them healthy. And so when we realized that all of us have a mess, gosh, well, growing up and probably can't say on this podcast, but I think I think everybody knows the saying.
[00:24:20.00] - Mitchel Buchanan
You, you pushed Jeff to say something earlier.
[00:24:22.16] - Gregg Garner
No, no, this is the.
[00:24:23.16] - Jeff Sherrod
Same thing, I didn't say anything.
[00:24:24.44] - Gregg Garner
Crazy, you know, like the, that sometimes like we, we think the goal in, in human living is to create a facade that promotes a sense of well- being that is completely immune to, to any, any negative. So, so, so that like you, you look at a person, you're like that person really loves the Lord. They're, they're, they're they, I bet they don't even fart like they're, they're just, they're just holy all the way through. They have there's no shortcomings that person. And I think religious institutions often want to uphold that image because it feels like it could be the goal of any religious program to create better people. But I, I, I think we we might have like the incorrect rubric when it comes to considering the better person, because according to Leviticus, the better person is going to be engaged in the process of figuring life out.
[00:25:31.48] - Mitchel Buchanan
Right.
[00:25:32.00] - Gregg Garner
Yeah, and they're going to use the word of God to figure it out. That means that there are things in my20 s that I would have allowed to pass into the holiness category that maybe in my30 s through experience and learning, I'd go, you know, that was a little more common than I thought, right? And then maybe my40 s, I might revisit it and go, but I found the holiness nuance from that and then reapply like, and, and I think a young person, cause young people are often motivated by ideals, right? The, the young people want to find the perfection. They want to find the ideals. They can't understand why someone would do that thing. I love that person. Why would they do that? Why are they involved in that? And then older people get quiet because they all know why they would do that. They got tired, they got lazy. They, they were hurting. They, they, they too much happened in life and they said, screw it. And it's, it's harder for younger people. But that's why I think young people are often utilized by religious organizations to further their cause because they're again transfixed on, on that ideal and, and manifesting that ideal. But the sobering teaching of Leviticus is that every single one of us have blind spots and we need each other to even make this distinction. Because when you look at the actual pragmatic processes, which is what we're talking about, how do you apply this? It's done by someone else. You don't do it to yourself. So you're, you're, you're not like self diagnosing. I think I'm holy. You're, you're now a part of a community, including subject to leadership, whose responsibility is to help you make that distinction. So that was a good example that you highlighted. Someone actually called you and said, Hey, am I using this correctly? That's a that's a cool check for them to have. But they but because the Bible also teaches us in the New Testament that we've become a, a royal priesthood or a new nation that is now characterized by all of us taking on this responsibility to make distinction between what's common and holy. We're all then able to have the kind of conversations that bring up, hey, does this look like leprosy to you? Because this is what I'm doing. What does that look like to you? And then what we don't want the person to do is go, Nah, man, I have that too. Like we're good. We want them to be able to go, well, you know, I, I, I, I, I don't know. I don't know. We need to look at God's word. We need to figure this out. What do you think? And then you could be like leprosy for sure. We're like, what do you mean? And then you have to give us the criteria because the Bible is is that word is the lamped our feet light to our path. It's supposed to be opening our eyes, illuminating us. That's what education is right? It's an eye opener. So as the word of God has spoken, it's not supposed to dictate to me like rules that say this is right and this is wrong, supposed to open my eyes so that I can actually see and now discern. Yeah, this is this is what this is just like a a medical professional who's making a diagnosis. We all know they're all guessing. Everybody's guessing, but they're, we're, we're hoping they're guessing to the best of their ability and they need to see it. They, they have to see what's going on, even if it's at a microscopic level. They got to look at that blood smear and see what's in there so that they can postulate an hypothesis on our way to health.
[00:29:00.72] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, which I think even what you're saying, it had something I wanted to chat with Jeff, and even I think Deb said she had some thoughts where a quote was biblical. Education is about knowing and being known. That was something Jeff brought up. And even what you're saying an example like a medical diagnosis where it's like, hey, we want to, you know, the the method of education is about knowing what the word says, right? And then I think what Greg's describing is there's a reflective practice with when you receive teaching that's like it's revealing about yourself, which that's that was somewhat what I understood about. Is that what you were going for in that?
[00:29:35.24] - Jeff Sherrod
Statement I was trying to say. I was trying to say both. You know, I think the imagery that was trying to use is like a marriage metaphor. You get married, you know less things about each other. There's a knowledge part that happens and increases in intimacy. But I think that happens with the lore, but also think that happens with the one another two as we learn together. So the thing I was trying to hit even with being known is that I really think that education, the biblical vision for it is a is a communal corporate endeavor that we even like, you know what Greg was saying this kind of like we where I often see him practically often see like the most discussions or even sometimes the most repentance or like let's change. This is when there was a group of people in one class and they heard something. They go out and talk about it or it was in a mad group or it was, you know, in some kind of Bible study where it wasn't just like one person doing that. They were learning something together, being known by other people around them as they're even discussing learning more about the Lord. And then it causes people to to change and reflect in, I think deeper ways. So that's why I think that like, yeah, a process that moves people towards being known, integration, belonging. I do. I'm, I mean, I'm a big fan of like individual saying the Bible. I think it's important too. But I don't think that you can ever replace the corporate call towards education. It's like, it's like what we are get together at church and then talk about it afterwards. Figure out like, what does this mean for us? How did you read that? This made me think of this. Yeah, being being known.
[00:31:10.16] - Gregg Garner
I might be missing the the connection. Help me draw the lines a little clear. Being what was the statement again known and being known?
[00:31:18.20] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, biblical education is about knowing and being known.
[00:31:21.07] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah. So I'm trying to I'm trying to say I think that there is there's an objective knowing part to biblical.
[00:31:26.55] - Gregg Garner
Like you're knowing information.
[00:31:28.03] - Jeff Sherrod
The rules, like, what are the statutes? Yeah, learning the laws. And then at the same time, what that should do is it should give you knowledge. I mean, we, you should give you knowledge of the Lord, whose laws these belong to. And so you can be known by the Lord. And then together we're doing this as well, knowing these statues, these rules, these commandments, so that we can also be known with one another too, even as we're learning it.
[00:31:52.55] - Gregg Garner
Because the implementation of that word is now characterizing the behavior of the person, and then I can say I know that person.
[00:32:00.72] - Jeff Sherrod
I think it I'm trying to maybe talk about the there's a process that happens like we hear something and maybe we haven't me and Deborah listen to a sermon from you. We haven't thought about this at all. Something and you and now we're suddenly talking about him like I do this and I think about this and there was because what spurred it was something in God's word that said here's the standard. Now we learned it, but now it's causing us to have this discussion on the other side, what we're learning about each other. We're learning more about the Lord. God is knowing US more. Hopefully, you know, we're, I shouldn't say that way. What we're, we're knowing God more. And yeah, it's, it's, it's an integrative process. Even as we know the word. What I'm trying to what I was trying to hit is that if someone's just like I'm sitting in this room and I spent a ton of time learning biblical languages, which I'm a fan of, but then it doesn't translate into the intimacy part either with the Lord or with the people that we're studying with them. We've missed a real important part.
[00:33:00.20] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, I think from the the example of a is it just a memorization of facts? Even the text in verse 11 is you're to teach the people of Israel all this. Actually, the Lord has spoken to them through Moses that there is the it's discursive. There's a conversation between the Lord and Moses. There's a conversation between Moses and teaching the people of Israel that I think education and like being known it, it's a discursive engagement that you're having. Whereas if it is just the retention of knowledge is like headphones on, I'm going to listen and then write down all the facts. But like it needs it's a living, breathing thing that needs to be, you know, with one another. And I think in that little way, it's like shown in the text of like you, you can't just do this through individual endeavor to learn more that like the nature of the word is relational in so far as there should be a teacher and a student relationship or, you know, the people of Israel together. There's a togetherness of like, hey, we're learning for another. We're learning, you know, the people of Israel learning to be a light to the nation's . They're learning with an objective with this goal that like we will be changed as a people, not that I will be a better person. So I think in, in this conversation, that's kind of what kicked off of my brain of that the method and the process of education is so dialogical and discursive and the element of having a group of people together can't be replaced through just learning, learning more. I, I think maybe because you can't learn facts. It's not as if if I'm not with you group of people, I can't learn the facts of the word. I just think in, in the matter of how am I going to live this out? How I'm how is it going to reflect what you know? The knowledge has done in my heart is not going to be there unless I have other people right. am I off? Did I say too much in my office?
[00:34:54.59] - Jeff Sherrod
I think that's accurate. Yeah, there's, there's a, it's, it's important that we know what the Bible says. And that's, that's the part of the interpretation journey that we try to get the college students to understand right, the historical context and language.
[00:35:06.96] - Mitchel Buchanan
Because it's not a it's not a replacement. Just say, hey, I'm at church or we're all together and like that.
[00:35:11.48] - Jeff Sherrod
Right. And then Suddenly I'm just asking someone, how did you read this passage? I'm not trying to do that where it the teaching the statutes that were handed down is important like learning it. But then as we're doing this, hopefully we're doing this together because it's what it's commanded right. Like you were to teach the people of Israel like this wouldn't have it didn't say you're teach all like the college age students here. The statutes of this is this is an endeavor for the whole group that they would learn what this would mean. And I think as they're doing that, there is an intimacy part that's happening with both the Lord and with one another.
[00:35:48.00] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:35:50.07] - Gregg Garner
So Israel then is representative of the community. Yeah. And so there is then a limitation on here that is implicit, but that this distinction and the teaching of the statutes belong to the community who's receiving it. And so it, I think there's a a move in our culture because of what technology is done for us, that everything has to move to the universal and we have to speak to everybody. Yeah, but everybody's contexts are so different. So like the things that we're going through in this in Middle Tennessee right now are in the, the, the challenges that are, are rising for us are going to be very different than a community in Siberia and what they have to contend with. So though the word of God is, is the same for both communities, the way in which we will apply it is, is going to be impacted by what it is we bring into the, the room or into the discussion. So I, I do think that it's important to recognize that this is a communication to a community, but that ultimately when they learn the statutes, it's gonna impact their behavior, which then is gonna demonstrate their values so that in the end, we can look at a group of people and say, based upon their practice, this must be their values. Oh, these people value getting together routinely. These people value learning together. These people value dining together. These about people value living in proximity with one another. These people value their kids being friends with each other. Like you're now seeing those values, but you may not know that it comes from the statutes and the rules and the ordinances, because that is the responsibility of the priesthood. That's the responsibility in this case of the community who's become biblically literate. So if you have like new people coming to the church and they're like, oh, that's kind of strange that that's happening and that's happening and that's happening because it's now not fitting into the the common rubric of how communities abide with one another. There has to be someone there who's teaching them the Bible, even if it's not a class, it's just a friend because they bring up the discussion and go, it's weird. I think sometimes in the past we've had people in community someone criticize something saying it's weird and they just go quiet rather than recognizing you have the authority, you know, the Scripture to say, well, the reason why we all put our kids in a private Christian School that was in proximity to us is because of scriptures like Deuteronomy 6 and the fact that we're pragmatically, we're a lot of us are dual income families and it's helpful for us to be able to entrust our kids to people who make it their full time occupation to teach. And it's it's in our neighborhood, which is incredibly convenient, but it also gives us a greater sense of safety for our kids. Transit like and then we we go back to the text again whether we want to go all the way to the beginning and talk about the the hospitable environment that God put into order prior to letting his kids learn there and the first thing they were going to do was education or we go to the New Testament and we recognize that for for Jesus, he wants us to not depend on what's over there, but but to figure out how we can solve our problems here. So yeah, like John six. They saw that the the problem of eating would be solved by sending everybody back into the city. But Jesus is like, you feed them, you feed them here. So you, you start using the Bible to help people make sense of. But it is they're already judging, but they may not have the right criteria to even know what's common or what's holy. So I, I, I just thought it'd be really good for everyone listening to know that you can't leave this up to a few prominent leaders or teachers to be responsible for it across the board. Everybody is responsible for learning God's word in such a way that they can contribute to how we make distinction because there are things you guys deal with. I do not deal with. And my lack of familiarity with the context that you have is going to make me a a bad judge over the situation. So there needs to be people in the the circles that we all have who understand our context, who then are able to help us diagnose the leprosy based upon their their knowledge of what it is that they're seeing. Because it it's just, it's it's too hard. And I think our culture has really moved to the expert. I was talking to somebody just today. They're like, yeah, I was with my therapist and not going back to that therapist anymore. I got some weird advice. I can't tell you how often I've heard that it.
[00:40:46.23] - Jeff Sherrod
Feels like it's it's the normal thing here.
[00:40:49.19] - Gregg Garner
But it's because we've, we've turned therapist into these people who have all the answers and who are unbiased and impartial in their judgement when we should know that according to Scripture , nobody's like that. And that everybody has to strive towards that. And the only way you know, you know, they're, they're genuinely striving towards that is that they've applied that rubric of Scripture to their practice. And, and that's not happening even with Christian therapists. A lot of Christian therapists are just Christian by designation, not actually by a knowledge of the Word of God. I I know lots of Christian therapists, and I rarely hear Christian therapists use scripture. They use the common modalities that any other person in their field uses. But there's a blessing for us in a community when you have people who are looking out for your cleanliness and your health, who know your situation and can more accurately diagnosed. So for example, I'm, I hope I'm not talking too much, but this is important. And I think you as a mother know this. Like I have a rule, if a mother tells me they notice something, their kids, I don't even need to see it or understand it. They know something because they know their kids. And even in moments where I'm like, I do not see this. I'm like, I do not know about this, but I, but I've learned to trust them because they do have the context. They have all the considerations. And now I can apply that as a part of my, you know, letting God's word illuminate how to look at it. But now that information has been made available to me so that at, in my position of authority, I could make a better decision towards the health of that child. And I, and I think doctors could learn from that. Like doctors need to listen to mom. When mom comes in and says something's wrong with my kid and the doctor's like, looks good to me. I looked at the blood and you're like, you're not listening to me. I'm not talking about his labs or her labs. I'm talking about this aspect, 'cause every testimony I've ever heard from a mother, he's like, whether it's three months later or three years later, they're like, I was right. You know what I'm talking about. They're like always, right?
[00:42:51.63] - Jeff Sherrod
Yeah, they know.
[00:42:52.44] - Gregg Garner
So I, think God knows this, and God wants us to know that even though none of us are perfect, none of us see everything, we're still of benefit to one another, especially when we're gonna adhere to that word of God, which wants us to promote the better health of everybody in the client in this. So I think it's an exciting invitation for people to learn the Word of God, because the more you know God's word, the more effective you're going to be at helping and serving and loving people and building them up and making them better people. Yeah, for sure. In the context of, you know what we're talking about, right?
[00:43:30.51] - Mitchel Buchanan
Yes, into every podcast, like in the context of what we were saying.
[00:43:35.19] - Gregg Garner
Sometimes you have to man ... These sound bites. Haha Well,
[00:43:39.63] - Mitchel Buchanan
Haha Well, I think this, this is a good place to end this was, I think this is just a, a great sermon value series. I think it's something that all of us are, it's near to our hearts because we all have gone through the process of being a student and learning ways that we will continue apply. And I, I think this has been a really helpful, challenging podcast of continuing to distinguish between holy and common, continuing to dive into God's word because we have to have it trailed off there. But thank you so much for listening, watching whatever method that you obtained this podcast. We appreciate it. Like and subscribe. And as always, make sure that we're continuing these conversations. Talk about it with a friend, a coworker, someone who's near to you. We want God's Word to be alive in our midst, to be building us up, and that we can be changing to be more like Christ. So thank you so much, and until next Sunday. We'll see you guys later.
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